Turret Placement: thinking it through.

[Cankor]

Summary of some helpful tips and tricks about defensive turrets (examples from around the EMP on Sewer):

This topic is about defensive turret placement, and to a lesser extent radar placement. It's not about field gun placement, as far as those go, place them in the rear and for gods sake don't put them where a defensive turret should go.

As far as radar, middle range is best (see below for reasons why). A good spot for a defensive turret gives the turret an open field of fire, this automatically makes it a bad spot for radar because you are giving the enemy an open field of fire to your turret. Hide your radar and you probably won't be taking a good spot from an engineer.

PLACING TURRETS;

Don't be a hog:
You've heard it before, when it comes to plopping down your turrets, don't take more space than you need. Here's a guy that took a spot that could hold 4 deployables and hogged it with one:

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Don't think you have to carry this to an extreme, here's a spot that can fit 3 turrets side by side, but that's not necessarily the best use of that space, if you take the middle back you have a better shot down the middle of the compound, and you've still left room for one turret on the right; plus the turret is easier to repair as there's a little more cover on the back side. Of course, if you have 7 engies on your team, you should leave as much room as possible, choose the center in that case because having an extra turret on each side will outweigh the sub optimal placement.

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Be creative:
Here's a neat spot for a AIT, notice the coverage it provides. It's far enough back from the action but it still gives full coverage to all of the turrets behind the generator, and some coverage to the one near it. True, a smart Field Ops can drop a hammer just in front of it's support area and take out defenders right at the EMP, but that assumes they have a functional radar which reaches back to the AIT.

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(edit: see follow on post for a nice spot for an AVT in the same area).



Set up mutual support:
Got three engineers, want to provide a nice healthy defense for the EMP? One turret of each type does a nice job of mutual support. If there's several turrets all packed together, get an AIT that covers them (but try and get it back a bit so it doesn't get taken out when the inevitable vampire comes in).

Don't set up a big fat target:
When I'm a field ops, I just love seeing 3 turrets all in a neat row. Or maybe it's two turrets with a Desecrater parked between them :) Whatever, here comes the Vampire. If you're the guy placing the 3rd turret, try and make it so not all three can be taken out by a single vampire.

Here's a nice setup for three engies defending the EMP on sewer that nicely illustrate these points:

The APT in the compound provide direct fire onto the EMP and anyone running in the rear. It's vulnerable from the side door right next to it. A smart engy will mine that route right after putting his turret here.

The AVT at the rear protects from vehicles rushing around the right front or left front or through the middle of the compound. It won't cover the back left side, everything is a choice.

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You might want to put your AIT in position one, it's got a nice wall in front of it for some cover, however this makes all three turrets a nice fat target for a vampire, and not only that from an easy location to toss the marker. I'd choose the back location in this case.

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FIGHTING BACK:

Use turrets simple mindedness against them:
Is there an AVT locking on you, is there a APT that is closer? Position your vehicle so the APT is between you and the AVT and watch the APT get taken out by the AVT.

Use radar:
Deploy your radar so it covers any defensive turrets and their area of effect will be nicely highlighted (see pic3 above and the one in the post that follows for examples). This lets you drop artillery outside of AIT range, and pilots can stop before entering AVT range. Of course, there could be turrets outside of your radar sweep that have their area of effect inside the sweep, but you get the idea: move your radar forward, especially if you have a back-up further back.

Use cover:
AVT Turret hunting in the Titan? Stay close to corners, pop around and shoot, decoy the oncoming missle, then slide back behind the corner to re-load.

Use vampires:
This is so obvious...Field Ops, get to the front lines and call in the air force.

[Cankor]

(could only post 5 pics/message, here's one more:

Be creative:

Here's a neat spot for a AVT, it has pretty good concealment, and look at it's field of fire. It will nail any vehicles coming up the road to the side of the base, it will nail any vehicles coming around the back of the base. It will even nail vehicles coming through the middle of the base if they come in too far (in this case though your line of fire may intersect your turret in the compound and take it out along with any supporting Strogg next to it, be aware of these kinds of consequences).

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[pF.Flogger]

Thanks for this, a lot of good thoughts here!

[pageian]

Nothing more frustrating than when you're trying to stop an mcp and you go to place an avt only to find out that someone place an avt or ait where the avt should go, and took up 2-3 spots to do it. I've done it too, when I'm in a hurry and take up too many spots, or press f too many times when I'm choosing my turret etc...

One thing I would like is if people would let their engs and fops get out of warmup without tking them so they can go out and pre-place their turrets, it lets them line up the direction and saves a few seconds during the game. Much better than having some dork follow you out of the base to tk you. Also, instead of tking in your own base hike over to the enemy and try to stop their engs/fops from pre-placing their turrets, if you're successful you will cost them a few extra seconds during the game and gain a small advantage. Could be the difference between winning and losing.

[Zee]

Great tips, thanks for sharing!

[Cankor]

Nothing more frustrating than when you're trying to stop an mcp and you go to place an avt only to find out that someone place an avt or ait where the avt should go, and took up 2-3 spots to do it. I've done it too, when I'm in a hurry and take up too many spots, or press f too many times when I'm choosing my turret etc...

One thing I would like is if people would let their engs and fops get out of warmup without tking them so they can go out and pre-place their turrets, it lets them line up the direction and saves a few seconds during the game. Much better than having some dork follow you out of the base to tk you. Also, instead of tking in your own base hike over to the enemy and try to stop their engs/fops from pre-placing their turrets, if you're successful you will cost them a few extra seconds during the game and gain a small advantage. Could be the difference between winning and losing.

Turrets placed during warm up disappear when the game starts. That's not to say it's not helpful to use that time to coordinate with other engies, but keep in mind you may be telling the enemy ahead of time where you're going to drop a turret as well.

[reyalp]

Another tip: switch it up. If you AVT kill a 3 vehicles in a row, there's a good chance the enemy will have a plan to destroy or evade it next time. So move it to a different location or drop an APT instead. If you are lucky, they'll waste a grenade or two on the old location before they even realize it has moved.

As cankor said, turrets are dumb and predictable. If all you had to do was deal with turrets, you could move cautiously and avoid ever dying to them. Of course in the real battle your in a hurry, and have other things competing for your attention. When you place a turret, you want to maximize that effect.

Mines are similar, and you can use them together... figure out the most likely place the enemy will run when they come into your AITs field of fire, and put a mine there.

[Miniwood]

Turrets placed during warm up disappear when the game starts.

But as he says the alignment stays, it only saves a few seconds, and you do give away your placement, but it's interesting that he's found a way of working during warmup.

Great post and tips Cankor. Thanks.

[machegh]

where can I find this photos with all maps and defensive turret placement?
tnks.

[pageian]

Turrets placed during warm up disappear when the game starts. That's not to say it's not helpful to use that time to coordinate with other engies, but keep in mind you may be telling the enemy ahead of time where you're going to drop a turret as well.

Right, the turret disappears but it remembers the direction it was placed in, saving you a few seconds when the game starts.

[NJ_Dude]

Right, the turret disappears but it remembers the direction it was placed in, saving you a few seconds when the game starts.


Yes, I do that sometimes, but also ENGIES PLEASE!!! if you are trying to help POINT THE TURRETS CORRECTLY!!!!!!, I've seen some engies dropping turrets without taking in consideration the angles or obstructions.

One more thing, what's the point in deploying artillelly turrets if NO FIELD OPS are going to use them :mad:

[Quovatis]

Yeah, I hate seeing a hammer/artillery placed next to a defense objective. Respawn in the main base and put it there FFS.

[Cankor]

where can I find this photos with all maps and defensive turret placement?
tnks.

I made the map with the turret placement myself. I took a mapshot while in deploy mode and the grid size showed up on the mapshot (you can see it, it's the one that is green inside the base near the EMP generator). That gave me a reference point on how big the grid was. I took the mapshot and made a jpeg from it and then dropped it into excel as the background image, and just re-sized the cell rows and columns to match the grid, resized the top row and left column to get it to line up. Then turned off the grid in excel. Now i have a map that has a grid underneath that properly aligned. I just went and added borders to the cells where you can actually place turrets (I ran around the map and scouted out all the ones in the base and around the EMP).

I think it would be cool if there were mapshot options to show the turret placement points as well as underground areas. Doing it by hand like that is a pain in the butt.

"But as he says the alignment stays, it only saves a few seconds, and you do give away your placement, but it's interesting that he's found a way of working during warmup."

That's cool, I didn't know that. Do you have to put it in the same spot for the alignment to stick (I guess I'll test it)? Edit: I just tested this, it didn't work for me, no matter where I deployed the turret it didn't save the facing after I deployed it in warmup.

C.

[Catatonic]

thanks for the info

[Theratman]

never thought about getting behind a APT when a AVT is shooting,great tip

[amrcell]

Where can I find those graphics that demonstrate the deployable areas for each map that you are using?

Thanks!

[Cankor]

Where can I find those graphics that demonstrate the deployable areas for each map that you are using?

Thanks!

see 3 posts above yours for the answer

[beer_engineer]

Good thread, I was going to do something similar. The maps make me wish the grid and the area/angle of effect showed up on the mini map when placing turrets though. I can't tell you how many times I've been shot/sniped/blown up because I had to stand there spinning the damn thing around so I could see the yellow marker in the tall grass, etc... Plus it would be good to see how much area the AIT is going to cover.

Couple more things, don't place turrets where they are going to shoot each other... Like on MCP maps I place a AVT in the path and someone places theirs either directly behind or in front of mine and they just blow each other up when the MCP rounds the corner...

Also sometimes you'll get a AVT (APT even too) to waste it's time shooting at you when it can't hit you (and the missiles just hit a hill or a wall somewhere, sometimes even causing splash damage to the enemy team hehe). Especially useful on MCP maps, if you can keep a AVT locked on your vehicle, even a Husky, it will keep shooting at you and ignore the MCP driving on by... You don't even have to be IN it, though it will stay there longer if you are, and nobody will gank it and move it, etc...

[Cankor]

Plus it would be good to see how much area the AIT is going to cover.


I'd love that, you could aim it so it barely covers a door on one side to get the most spread on the opposite side.

leads to another point: Don't think of aiming the arrows at what you want to cover, think about getting as much crucial area covered in the range of the turret instead.

Example: salvage, fist objective, there's a spot in front of the generator where the GDF can place a turret. Some people will aim the turret at the generator, some will aim it at the ally between the two buildings opposite, others will aim it to the right side to cover Strogg coming from that direction.

What you should do instead is aim it sideways so the left side covers the generator and the right side covers the ally. That gives you maximum effect (ignore the right side approach, there's a spot around the corner for a second APT there so it's a waste to aim this one that direction). Now you have both the generator covered as well as anyone who runs out of the ally.

Again, Turret arc is 120 degrees (1/3 of a circle). See post two above for pic.

[GorkerMorker]

These days I love to use the compulsory APT warning. Especially the zone before the refinery is brilliant for this. Simply put up an APT and start assisting the APT with your own fire. Players are blinded by the warning and can't hear where you're shooting from. You're essentially jamming them, which makes them very easy kills indeed. Combine this with a flying repair drone and you've got yourself a very nice team combo (you and the APT that is).

[Shin-i-gami]

I've got a question.

If the MCP is disabled and very close to the outpost. do you deploy an AVT to stop it or an APT to kill the engineers?

[Bunkermaster]

I've got a question.

If the MCP is disabled and very close to the outpost. do you deploy an AVT to stop it or an APT to kill the engineers?Killing the engineers has to be your priority. No engineer means no MCP to shoot at. That said, it depends what other assets you have up and ready to stop the MCP in case you miss an engineer (tormentor, desecrator, AVT, hog, cyclops, whatnot).

[gamma]

great post, played over 500 hours in total from beta demo and retail and still learned a few things

[Sky Pilot]

It absolutely drives me NUTS when people put deployables in a spot that blocks others from being deployed. I've done it, but I learned. I hope others do too.