Adaptive Fighting

[(HP)Natural Causes]

Not everything that works, works all the time

After spending some time in the suggestions/feedback section I thought maybe people would want some help with tactics against certain situations they find overwhelming, or overpowering.

For instance a big problem people on the GDF have from my game play experience, not from what I read on the forums here, is the Tormentor in the hands of a skilled pilot on maps like Island, where the terrain limits the GDF but allows the pilots the new ceiling increase as well as distancing themselves from the land or repairing behind the mountain top or mountain bases far ridge. (leave mines where they repair, haha just kidding!, but once it actually killed the pilot as he exited to repair, but not the vehicle. The place to leave mines in this map is in the strogg entrance to generator, provided you can make in there, as you wipe the room from behind, they will walk right into them. taking out all the fast rushing soldiers intent on stopping the construction)

Sometmes this Tormentor example can be countered with certain standard combat tactics (AVTS).

But what if a pilot like DomMafia (http://stats.enemyterritory.com/profile/DomMafia) (or as i call him in team talk, Dom the Devil) is in the skies?! The avts cant lock cause his fingers got decoys coming out of them like grapes in the vineyards italy, all the while he is torturing your team and the poor guys who survive still must make it to the bunker past the rest of his strogg goons.

So how do we fight against situations like this? when everything is getting very ugly for your team, console is down, and you are about to hit the letter t in disconnect and hit enter.....wait! there are ways to adapt to fight the more challenging situations such as this one, without giving in to the quit command.

Standard tactical solutions rarely see success against uncommon opponents

I offer this thread to you and your most loathed scenarios, as a means of returning the favor to our friendly opposition I will try to update it with tactics and insight from the battlefield based on any of your requests.
post more later.

The First!:
It involves the Titan Tank, Slipgate, and a tactical solution to hacking the objective, learned after being beaten down so many times at this part of the map I cant remember the last time we actually hacked it against a superior team. more to come >< sorry bout leaving this without 1 yet.

[Abedeus]

Autoexec.cfg + imba skill (not that hard ;d) + nice reflexes/strategy [I love starting with using Strocket, then charge at AVT/AIP/infantry and use Plasma Cannon, then turn around, use Strocket again (bind right-mouse click to change weapon ftw), get very high, cannon again and hide for a second (good way to stop GDF on Island) and repeat] can be really irritating, if you can't defend against it, or a real blessing, if someone is in your team/you can do that.

[(HP)Natural Causes]

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/N4tur4ally/cm_slipgate_lg.jpg
I marked the road route directly to slipgate that i discovered while wondering how the heck i could blow up the people camping the gate. All the gdf vehicles can make it along this route, snipers usually relax up in the sun here, but i never had a clue you could rampage the tank up there. at the point my eleeeete paint skills marked with the white dot, is a ramp that takes you partially out of the map, causing the driver to take a small amount of damage but the time you are out isnt long, i never take enough to go below 75-80% however be on guard as trying to skip this ramp isnt always possible for combat reasons, but if you take the ramp you are guaranteed to avoid detection or exposure

Try this - at the start of the map on the first run

If you know the upcoming battle at slipgate could be onesided, plan a coordinated attack at the beginning of the map with the tank, the truck, and the apc loaded with coverts and medics.

Not many teams will be prepared to take on a full scale assault at the beginning, before turrets have all dropped and camps in place, sometimesz the gates still arent mined when i arrive. (unless every turret is deployed around it immediately, which isnt often)

since most gdf teams go for forward spawn and the barricades as soon as the match starts youll have the element of suprise and hopefully a significantly larger force. i recommend that the tank immediately lays down fire on whatever is the largest threat to the team on the mountain as airstrikes are thrown to remove any infantry units or remnants of tank hits.

drop the team down to gate level and have the tank continue to lay down support fire from the mountain, you can fly it off the mountain side onto the roof of the building (the tip of my white arrow is pointing at the roof) if you really want to get crazy and get some airtime.

just like the vehicles the tank becomes expendable once those coverts touch the hack, it lives and dies, to ensure they hack that shield. i never see people acting aggressive like this, jump the tank off a mountain side on to a house, and then on to the steps of the gate.

the first time i did it, it created confusion and chaos, not to mention it freaked out the constructors laying mines around the gate (which the tank should also fire to clear for the coverts)and sent them fleeing behind their apts, which btw you should blow up before you drop the covs lol @ you if you dont =P

another good way to use this route is to proceed normally to the forward spawn, rush the gate a couple of times from the FAR LEFT, drag them away from the gate, die, respawn and head right back there and die again a second time, and make sure you create a ruckus, you want to draw as much attention to that side of map as possible, ESPECIALLY the vehicles. if you need to repeat this part, go for it.

When you notice the strogg defense shift troops to reinforce that area get ready to flank them at gate (they should smell free gdf kills, and any player lured by kills will wait at least a few precious moments too long before they consider what is happening). fall back to a crew of awaiting teamates at first spawn and take the route. with whatever team of guys you can find.


if they do not shift troops at all, and you have no success getting them away from the gate, that area is cramped with debris and structures. airstrike them away and proceed with hacking.

cheers

[ToKillaman]

+1 for good info.

[(HP)Natural Causes]

Another note on the slipgate route -

I am not aware of any Strogg spawn entrance,possibly behind the gate roadblocks to that mountain and will check it out tonight to see if they can (their armor hovers =P).

If this the case, it opens your assault team to the possibility of a counter-attack which I was previously unaware of. Assuming they can access it by ground as well, the mountain is then, while less effective than the one i suggest above, another plausible area to draw away their offensive units with decoy assaults, this time you would switch to attacking the main route, as it is faster than the far left (which would offer cover from the mountain but exposure to spawn).

Remember they will either build their units, or Misdirection on this map is important in this example as the gate is behind 2 major choke points for vehicles, several minor ones, and network of structures that, while they may allow your teammates to proceed under cover to the objective, alternatively offer the enemy cover to safely target your coverts, who will be singled out for termination first.

Another last piece is that the mountain offers very good cover from all ground units, including armor. I was once cleanly targeted by a strogg f ops, but at the time I had the tank half hanging off the cliff over the gate. The tormentor and icarus will have no problem over here, but if you have the vehicles and a squad of troops, you will have a fighting chance against the weak armor of their aircraft, considering they are the only threat while proceeding on this route, make sure you are prepared to engage them if thats what it comes down to.

Hopefully with this information, you can find more ways to adapt to their defensive strategies, whether they split up and chase your decoy assaults, or hold their team at the gate exposing them to airstrikes. - 10 for the teamkills, v6 v6!

[GorkerMorker]

So you take a shortcut via Antartica? ;)

Kidding it's a great tactic. And the general idea is indeed something that more people should know. It's the general thickness of people. When something doesn't work they only try the same thing harder instead of something else.

[(HP)Natural Causes]

-Adapt to their defensive layout of the gate and it should effectively force the opposition to adapt to your methods of assault, eventually this will become a route everyone knows is there, but it will still allow you another alternative assault route, which they must be prepared to weather.

-The strogg can access this route from behind the roadblock, in the hover tank. but it takes quite a bit of driving to get it up and not hit the invisible damage barrier often, atleast it will for them for awhile. its slow moving for them, and the hills they have to pass to get to where you can access the gate block their view of you. when they finally reach it, you will already have dropped in.

- one more note, this route is alsoperfect for a squad of coverts entering the gate area, while the rest of the team keeps the defense busy in the streets.

[Quovatis]

I use that route all the time as a Field Op on Slipgate. I rain Artillery on the road leading from the strogg spawn, throw airstrikes on the AIT by the gate, then take potshots with the scoped AR. An Incarus always shows up, but I can usually deal with them. While my artillery is reloading I usually spawn back, take the Titan, and go the other way around to spawn camp and take out their deployables from behind.

[Zeah]

Hmm, never seen that route at all. I new there had to be something though... I've also found if you can get a good tanker in the strogg spawn, and stall long enough, you can hack and get the MCP through the slipgate.

The opposite of that would be using the Tormentor and taking the forward spawn, and then putting up defense at the gate.

But of course most players will just try to snipe, and get owned by mines among other things.

[Deprave]

This is certainly something you dont see people doing much in pub games, changing up their strategys, players can be very predictable and this is a good point.

One quick example:

Doing something that is way out of the ordinary you can catch entire teams by suprise, One time on island as GDF, I took the trojan and just drove into the strogg spawn, parked in the back, they all spawned and I ran over most of them and gunned down the surviors, It was easy pickings because they where so shocked by someone actually using this thing in attempts to spawn camp or fight them and they wasted a good ammount of time trying to kill me plus an additional spawn timer and we finaly took the generator over this sillyness.

[PhatPhreak]

I have to agree that changing your tactics every spawn is a must. Returning to the same spot to defend is not a smart tactical move. Oh but its so funny to see people/team try to continuously rush the objective and be cut down to size before they even draw a weapon. I believe that people fail to utilize the fire teams and team work that make this game great. (I play on public servers so fail to see much team work at all)

Almost 99% of the time the attacking force cluster up around the objective. What i try to do is get into a defensive position where i can lay cover fire and also protect the objective.

Also sticking with a team mate is a good way to go. While one lays down cover fire the other protects the gunners arse. While one reloads the other takes his place. (GPMG/Hyperblaster & Field Ops/Oppressor would have to be my favourite. Add a medic into the equation and you are almost unstoppable.)

I really liked reading the ideas that you came up with and would love to read some for the other maps. But the only problem i find is that it would be hard to convince the majority of the team to come with you on what could potentially be a long walk off a short pier.

[GreasedScotsman]

Resurrecting this thread due to its awesomeness factor being well above the norm. That is all.

[(HP)Natural Causes]

One approach on this map to reducing your losses and damages is strictly limiting the number of your teams deployables deployed at any one time. Having only 2 covert ops, switching off dropping radar only when its damaged with nothing else, no artillery, no ait, no nothing.

Normally, vehicles and soldier/fops missions yeild large points for clusters of defensive deployables and radars...the guiltiest being the forward gdf spawn. I think soldiers and f ops can get anywhere from 4-7 points for each one depending on their class and mission whether they are in a vehicle, if you only give them 1 radar in the rear fort, and one at forward spawn. they can't get diddily!

the team with no deployables inevitably denies the enemy a substantial sum of points they would receive from completely destroying them. More importantly in the case of skilled players, this is 100's of points per map per player, a great increase in skills and abilities comes with that difference.

on 32 slot servers that is a substantial number of points per map, especially considering the first map ALSO has an MCP....the loss of deployable points by enemy vehicles is as large as the nexus tower itself. the mcp issue aside, 1.4 is coming. but also a majority of the map play time is not meant to be mcp, the 3 maps in the campaign only have 2 sections early on involving the mcp, both difficult but if the vehicles (especially a potential cyclops camping inside the gate) and deployables are wiped out in a singular strike. this part should be over in good time. slip may have a large mcp distance, but once you clear the gate, if you have cleared the vehicles inside already, you can cover a ton of distance very fast.

combined with vehicle points from the mcp map before this tactic can narrow the gap between the teams scores by limiting the damage dealing classes and vehicles of the enemy over 1-2 maps. the reduction in points also means a reduction in enemy abilities/level ups

On the reverse side i do believe that not having any of their r toys destroy they will turn their attention more vividly on us and our movements. which in the case of the tormentor, is not a good thing at all.

it will cause them to turn their very deadly attention upon you and your team ><
however there are advantages to not using your deployables
such as for field ops

airstrikes have the fastest reload time and can never be blocked by ait, only by being covered. the wide attack span allows for a large kill zone in a single precise moment without possibility of interuption

not dropping any artillery in favor of airstrikes allows the f ops to change to another class between airstrike recharges and lifes at whim(1-2 fast deaths), allowing for extra coverts when the chain requires backup or suicide taps.

not to mention they can change to any class at every respawn at need.

Engineers have a bigger issue, is AIT badly needed? are their vehicles out of control?

reactionary engineers are effective in this position if they call down avts and drop them upon being damaged for another selection'

however rookie engineers will often forget, or leave undefended the deployables or worse the spawn. if you are going to play on a deployable free team as an engineer, get the grenade launcher, and find a medic crate. become 1 with your light weapons. drop avts when vehicles creep too close for comfort (like right up on the spawn doors) and you will be fine.

soldiers. suck it up, suicide that avt....

[Natural-Causes]

consider slipgate fought this way

the white line takes you into the damage section, but minimum damage is 20% for me usually, and thats vehicle damage, not personal.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/N4tur4ally/cm_slipgate_lg.jpg

I often compare how our GDF teams are chancing the odds of 5 randoms on foot staying alive from the gdf first spawn to slipgate directly on any of the lower routes at match start, when the entire strogg team is pouring out from the spawn and gate to meet you on the frontlines...with the gdf vehicles completely exposed to the tormentor, limited if any cover from armor for footsoldiers on the left, infantry festering wounds of strogg on the right....it wouldnt look pretty for our bold 5 teamates it wouldnt look pretty for duke nukem, let alone 5 teamates in a pub server, you can quote me on that ><

Then consider this strategy....
the odds of 5 guys packed into an armadillo taking the isolated, often unguarded, mountain route directly above the slipgate, leaving them literally at the foot of the gate before enemies even have a chance to engage them.

cmon, you love me, admit it!

it is a damage only to vehicle route however, later when its out of that damage and no repair zone it can be repaired, you just have to cross the no-damage no-repair line, into the no-damage, able to repair line (exposing you to the enemy) which is the tradeoff, and why minimizing damage and thus maximizing the efficiency of your tank route while in the damage zone is key to regular success with this strategy to some degree and should therefore be mentally footnoted for later while in the game

(i can avoid it completely in the titan without rocket artillery or a tormentor watching, but i aint budging on that move )

now, onto the formation for defending the gate. here is the first formation for gdf, aproaching the gate. GreasedScotsman has 3 white names in his dillo, going up the mountain route. the other 8 are here.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/N4tur4ally/SlipgateSecondTacticStep.jpg

The White Dots - mark suggest placement of the OTHER 8 team members while greased and his 3 white-named-yet--still-courageous-and-dangerously-cocky coverts (we in the community love you kinds of noobs the most! go crazy on that hack rookie!) daringly crash the apt on the far side of the hack

The White Lines - mark the forward lines, basically all fire should be focussed from these lines at all times because they form the basis for how to box the strogg into the spawn....

when drawn it looks like this (see below) effectively forcing the strogg into their vehicles or into a corner to die alone and scared within a giant yellow square (marks the kill zone)

The dotted red lines -mark the weakest area of the kill zone The dark arrow marks the most likely route the main strogg force will move in reaction to this formation and notification the hack has begun (troops should be in position before the hack begins, so when the strogg react, they appear and lay down cover fire all at once, simultaneously...)

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/N4tur4ally/SlipgateSecondTacticStep2.jpg

the green line - represents the forward squad of coverts you are trying to protect out of the picture, on the lower side of the gate. green for their scottish blood ><

the crimson lines - mark the line of sights from each position, and the general direction they should be aiming to keep the strogg pinned within the kill zone

the crimson triangle marks the maximum kill zone, pinched between the 4 units on the hill (higher volume of fire than 2 units, separated into two groups like the south squad) and the mounted GPMG on the roof, which looks DIRECTLY at their spawn and is NEVER used as much or as often as it should be, in main part to this formation not being reinforced in the right fashion, at the right time.

This set up allows the GDF to maximize their kill potential once they move in around the gate while at the same time forcing the enemy team to face them before rushing the gate to stop the hack. if employed effectively, you will be forcing the strogg to get into vehicles and attempt to rush the coverts before the hack finishes....or be wiped as a team.

If they are already in vehicles, and NOT directly threatening the coverts at the hack, any damage they do to the formation is acceptable as long as it is not instantaneous across the board death to any one vehicle (tormentor, desecrator) and the coverts receive the time they need to hack, while you die gloriously for them, alien corpses piled high under your broken body.

Infantry on strogg should fall fast within the kill zone. Medics in the lower squads can rush spawnhosts as needed, and revive with a far superior level of support and cover from the team while attending to the boo boos the coverts might get from the fall off the mountain to the gate (why you knuckle heads jump mid air in a dillo i will never know)

Remember the yellow square, remember it.

It is your friend.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/N4tur4ally/SlipgateSecondTacticStep3.jpg

the red dots and lines mark positions taken with a shift to the right by each of the 8, as the hack approached 50 %

and this is purely for my enjoyment....
http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/N4tur4ally/natural202.jpg

[spaboy]

For those great tactics as Natural Causes i recommend you to use ATC (Advanced Tactics Center) to develope your tactics.

Sometime ago, logix sports created a ATC Mod with the 6 ETQW competition maps:

you can download from here: http://files.5pg.de/fix/logixatc/Advanced.Tactical.Center.ETQW.Mod-1.0.rar

So you will be able to store your tacticals and spread them or discuss it by creating a simple ATC server and other ppl joining.

Hope it helps you.

[Natural-Causes]

interesting.

[Natural-Causes]

I have to agree that changing your tactics every spawn is a must. Returning to the same spot to defend is not a smart tactical move. Oh but its so funny to see people/team try to continuously rush the objective and be cut down to size before they even draw a weapon. I believe that people fail to utilize the fire teams and team work that make this game great. (I play on public servers so fail to see much team work at all)

Almost 99% of the time the attacking force cluster up around the objective. What i try to do is get into a defensive position where i can lay cover fire and also protect the objective.

Also sticking with a team mate is a good way to go. While one lays down cover fire the other protects the gunners arse. While one reloads the other takes his place. (GPMG/Hyperblaster & Field Ops/Oppressor would have to be my favourite. Add a medic into the equation and you are almost unstoppable.)

I really liked reading the ideas that you came up with and would love to read some for the other maps. But the only problem i find is that it would be hard to convince the majority of the team to come with you on what could potentially be a long walk off a short pier.

http://i140.photobucket.com/albums/r3/N4tur4ally/8fc7cd21abe7ad7c04c8d530d6d03732.jpg

i have a great one for canyon i will post tomorrow
and have hope, if you know 3 people on your team, and can get them to create fireteams, they and you can spam the public with invites and try to coerce them to follow you to specific places. i wish i had digital cookies to feed the lemmings for following, but i gotta sweet talk em instead ><

[Dionysus]

Natural......This is all good Meng continue these awesome informative Threads the community will get awesome insight. Thanks.

[Natural-Causes]

I am going to upload some demos today. and post some walk through guides to approaching the slipgate, canyons first 2 objectives. and my favorite, using medic crates on rooves.

off to ze hospital. thank you for the tactical planner spaboy, natty likes ><

[Natural-Causes]

Haha! while i work on learning scripted cameras and the proper form, I will desist from making anymore wacky videos and instead, fill my sony vegas time with Adaptive Fighting Returns!!!!..... (http://files.filefront.com/Adaptive+Fighting+1mp4/;11556885;/fileinfo.html)

This is much easier as now i can explain things in a video, rather than having to write it all out, and then post it with pictures and nonsense. So this is Fudy + Nat on area 22. we started on GDF, and after holding the first obj for 10 minutes we changed to strogg, and the two of us roll gdf in 4 minutes flat.

I wasnt intending on making this an informative tip filled video when i made it, it just kinda was the way it started to go. now im scheming, cause this video is half medic, half engineer, half strogg, half gdf, its all over the place like my dome.

So next week we begin proper, and adaptive fighting tactics returns with something that just doesn't get the love or respect it deserves..... The GPMG!!!

Adaptive Fighting #2 - The GPMG
Thats right!
As seen through the eyes of Ganjmahal on Area 22 (50 GPMG kills + 2 Grenade kills for Most Kills).
Until then, here is a video of myself and dio getting our butts kicked. (http://dodownload.filefront.com/11543137//ca89819b96fb6cf3aaa4e2db4bcade4cbdeb7ee359fb510e6b 778259fc5f750c56637f87843072a7)

[Szakalot]

@adaptive fighting_1

man we have a different perspective on videos : liked the content, liked the quality/size, music was fine but that text.... it was out of sync with the video, and made it painful to read&watch at the same time.
Couldnt you use smaller fonts and perhaps on the bottom of the screen?
Other than that, it was pretty cool.

[Natural-Causes]

you got it man.
and ill quote strogg "you rock!"

and for the record, to anyone who stumbles upon this topic.
the sound quality is greatly reduced while streaming on filefront, yet another reason to download and delete when done....o.0

bio snark has me eyeing gamevee