Stuff *not* to try on ranked servers

[ZoogieZork]

I was playing a few nights ago when the charge I was planting suddenly went from half to fully planted almost instantly when a fellow soldier doubled-up on the arming. I thought to myself: "Brilliant! No more half-planted charges!"

Tried it myself on a ranked server last night and ended up stealing somebody's plant :( Needless to say, he wasn't too happy -- I have the TK scars to prove it.

Anyway, dude, if you're reading this, I owe you a plant. :o

[Senethro]

Don't apologise because the other guys a statswhore.

[xxcommodusxx]

Yeah, that is actually something that you should be doing, regardless of what type of server you are on. The stats are representative of how helpful you are being to a team, helping arm a charge to destroy an objective is very helpful towards winning. The only issue is that currently SD haven't implemented a good "sharing" protocol for how these are handled so he should be upset with them if anyone, not someone helping the team win.

[JohnnyMak]

Yeah, that is actually something that you should be doing, regardless of what type of server you are on. The stats are representative of how helpful you are being to a team, helping arm a charge to destroy an objective is very helpful towards winning. The only issue is that currently SD haven't implemented a good "sharing" protocol for how these are handled so he should be upset with them if anyone, not someone helping the team win.

QFT this pretty much sums it up. If people are just stats whores, and get upset then it really makes the game less fun.

Just 2 nights ago, I was just trying to help the team out, with the objectives so that we can win. I just happen to get 2 of 3 objectives on one map and then the following map I got the first two of the three and my team was actually joking around with me "Leave some for us" and actually started making a gameplan for me to finish the job, because of the success. Thats how it should be working as a team. Its funny because on the last objective I planted it 3/4 of the way, died and my teammate just finished it off. I didn't care only because we won.

[Natural-Causes]

in a team game, if that guy couldn't plant and arm his own charge, which he should if he planted it, then your team thanks you for arming it for him. the fact he tked you says he doesnt care about the team and more the charge being armed by himself, as they pointed out to you =)

say that happens in a more pressing moment, and you didnt arm the charge because of this, can you imagine how your team will react?

mak makes a great example btw >< of a solid team mindset

[Pakaa]

Glad you "stole" it from that mofo. :D

Just file a complaint and move on.

[dgk]

stat whores ruined quake wars.

[JohnnyMak]

What does filing a complaint do anyways? Form what I've seen nothing, so even if they do that it doesn't make a difference. I remember in ET:W you were deducted 10XP but still it doesn't prevent anything. (also in ET:W the XP resetted after each campaign)

[Quicksilver420]

Xp resets after a campaign in ET:QW's also.....

[Singh400]

I was playing a few nights ago when the charge I was planting suddenly went from half to fully planted almost instantly when a fellow soldier doubled-up on the arming. I thought to myself: "Brilliant! No more half-planted charges!"

Tried it myself on a ranked server last night and ended up stealing somebody's plant :( Needless to say, he wasn't too happy -- I have the TK scars to prove it.

Anyway, dude, if you're reading this, I owe you a plant. :oMeh ignore him. Doubling up FTW.

[Verticae]

Psh! Go pro! :D

[signofzeta]

Yeah, sometimes I plant, and tell someone else to arm it, or I'm an engineer, in a ledge, and I toss mines down, and tell someone else to arm it because I don't want to leave my ledge just to arm them.

I see many people planting HE charges and automatically arming them. As in, no breaks between planting and arming. What I usually do, is Plant, kill off some dudes, and if I do die, at least the charge is still there ready to be armed by someone else.

What I also see, is if an unarmed charge is already there, people tend to plant a new one, rather than arm the existing one.

If there are many guys, I plant, arm a bit, fight off some dudes, and arm some more, and fight off some dudes, instead of sitting there arming while I'm getting shot.

[tenio]

arming is faster then planting, planting takes precious time which can be spent arming one that is already planted

I only wish that the explosives expire later, they seem to not even last more then 1 spawn wave

[jALLAD]

... Its funny because on the last objective I planted it 3/4 of the way, died and my teammate just finished it off. I didn't care only because we won.

whenever i get partial plants, i announce it over VOIP or chat with precise location of the plant. that way someone else can finish it, the charge is not going to last even one spawn wave anyway.

winning is so much better than stat-whoring :D

[DrFunkenstein]

whenever i get partial plants, i announce it over VOIP or chat with precise location of the plant. that way someone else can finish it, the charge is not going to last even one spawn wave anyway.

winning is so much better than stat-whoring :D

That's the way to do it!

My favourite plant so far was one on the last objective on Salvage. I planted and armed it half way, someone else armed it to 90% and because I had a spawn host I was able to get there quick and finish the last bit. It was great and it only worked because we kept telling each other over VOIP where we planted and how much we armed it!

Don't be selfish, let your team know you planted and finish other peoples plants first!

Dr. Funkenstein

[GorkerMorker]

I actually placed a second charge on the barricade and started arming the charge half a second before he started, he noticed that and shot me in the face before I could finish my charge.

People are such good sports.

[Rapier]

Only saw 1 lamer once on Sewer. 2 Coverts were hacking with me as soldier, when I came to the console 1 covert shot the other and finished the hack. I was about to tk the bastard for the statpadding but was to late :(.

Most lamers I see leave a loosing match, not finishing it. I'd ban those if possible but I guess servers would run dry if that would happen :(.

Ow now I remember on a server once, I was in the Tormentor taking out a few deployables when I suddenly got banned, no warning nothing, just banned. Later on I was able to connect again but I left, thats not a server I want to be on.

[FireWorks]

Only saw 1 lamer once on Sewer. 2 Coverts were hacking with me as soldier, when I came to the console 1 covert shot the other and finished the hack. I was about to tk the bastard for the statpadding but was to late :(.

Most lamers I see leave a loosing match, not finishing it. I'd ban those if possible but I guess servers would run dry if that would happen :(.

Ow now I remember on a server once, I was in the Tormentor taking out a few deployables when I suddenly got banned, no warning nothing, just banned. Later on I was able to connect again but I left, thats not a server I want to be on.

The lulu? server has quite a long ban list for such reasons... The most enforcing admins dont play that often anymore. Dont know how the quality is at the moment.

The ban might be a misclick of the admin or just a kick for a slot? Kick has a short time ban included. Sure it should have been announced anyway.

[Syba]

oh this is sortof an opportunity to voice my latest experience of admin ****wittery

i had this guy move me from a winning strogg team to a losing gdf team in the final minute of valley, so he could join strogg instead of me

;o

</derail>

as you were

e2a: just to name and shame (and so fireworks doesnt think it's lulu? server), this was -UNITED NATIONS- Public Server.

[kaya]

That guy is a stats whore and don't deserve to get it, but he do get it even if the game say you got it :(

[|WCK|MurderFace]

stat whores are the whoriest of whores. i've given up on ranked play, personally. too much 'tardation.

[Cr4shOverride]

Seen this kinda thing happen alot recently, not just with planting a charge. When me and r1se are playing infiltrators and take a disguise to try and liberate a forward spawn or backstab someone trying to deliver the data disk there's now a 60% chance we get tk'ed by a technician. Now I understand this if the team needs spawn hosts and usually i'll leave the dead bodies surrounding objectives etc but i'm talking about a body that's lying around in the middle of nowhere or has been there for so long it's about to dissapear. The Tech wont even bother to revive after a bit like how when a medic runs you over with a husky and doesn't pull over to revive.

Going back to the half plants, I always cross my fingers that someone will finish arming my C4 even if they decide to plant theirs first. With that trick I once armed 3 charges in one go and I've recently started doing the trick of helping someone plant their charge like the OP mentioned but maybe it would be an idea to stop arming 1 sec before it's fully armed that way you don't steal the credit and get tk'ed. I sometimes do this with other objectives as well. I figure seeing as I've got over 1000 obj completed it's time to give something back and let someone else finish the hack or build, after all you still get xp out of it.

[nick_ss]

I was playing a few nights ago when the charge I was planting suddenly went from half to fully planted almost instantly when a fellow soldier doubled-up on the arming. I thought to myself: "Brilliant! No more half-planted charges!"

Tried it myself on a ranked server last night and ended up stealing somebody's plant :( Needless to say, he wasn't too happy -- I have the TK scars to prove it.

Anyway, dude, if you're reading this, I owe you a plant. :o

I don't think you should feel sorry about it. You did the right thing, helping him arming the charge is important, reduces the time need to arm the charge, so you can start defending it sooner.

[Road-Kill]

Play on ranked or unranked servers, just make sure you have a low ping, I have played games where someone with mega high ping has joined and it makes it lag like hell for the rest of us, not sure why:confused:

[Verticae]

High pingers do not make you lag. Stop the drama.

[FireWorks]

e2a: just to name and shame (and so fireworks doesnt think it's lulu? server), this was -UNITED NATIONS- Public Server.

Thanks now I can sleep much better :D

[Szakalot]

Imo u shouldnt plant on some1 else charge. If a guy wants to be a stat whore (meaning he wants to have the credit for the plant) u should respect that and let him arm his charge on his own. You have no right to tell people that teamwork is the ultimately moral way to play this game and everyone disagreeing should leave cause 'thats not how its meant to be played'.

[xxcommodusxx]

Imo u shouldnt plant on some1 else charge. If a guy wants to be a stat whore (meaning he wants to have the credit for the plant) u should respect that and let him arm his charge on his own.

I completely disagree, I shouldn't have to take into account someone else wanting to play the game a way it wasn't meant to be played. The game designers added in the ability to arm any HE charge with any arming tool, if someone wants to play a team-based game in a non-team-based format then they should stick to single player or else they shouldn't expect me to not play as a team player.

[Kristus]

@Szakalot: This is a team based game, if you're not a teamplayer, why do you even play online? It's not like this is an important peice to gain here. It's another notch in the belt of stats. Anyone who values that more than the team play is playing the wrong game.

[Cr4shOverride]

To Commodus and Kristus,

I have a sneaking suspicion he was being sarcastic, sorry if i'm pointing out the obvious.

[Szakalot]

@commodus Kristus and Override
no im not (sarcastic). I fail to see how the primary intention on how the game should be played by the devs, is in any way obligatory on how should i play it. The only rules every player should apply to are those of social behaviour (dont tk on purpose, behave normally, dont cheat, dont exploit beyond common sense).
The game designers added the ability to TK somebody without having the credit for it by destroying nearby vehicles (with the vehicle explosion killing someone) or by driving somebody over while jumping out at the last moment. Does that mean everyone should do that? The devs wanted to make a nice team-shooter. Does that mean that we are ought to play teamwise? What if me and me friends wanna have a fragfest (be it on a ranked server or not)? The only rules applied in a game are those that the majority of the players on a particular server or/and admin decided to obey.
@Commodus :
of course, when the majority of players will think in the same way u do that player u just stole planting credit from should obey in the meaning that he might get kicked if he for example tk's u to prevent that from happening. But if u do happen to be on a server with people more like-minded as me then u wouldn be able to kick the guy, and the tk would be valid in the eyes of majority, thus the truth would be ours.
What im saying is that the only morality u get on a server in a game is that of the most players having it.
@Kristus
This is a team based game, im a teamplayer (usually) but i respect people playing the way they find the most appropiate as long as it fits the social behaviour standards. Stealing a vehicle to drive/fly it on the most 'hermitish' edge of the map to deny any teammate access to it would for example be valid (in my eyes) for a kick.
If i feel like trying to kill as many enemies i possibly can with, for example a medic, would it be valid to kick me just because reviving isnt my top priority anymore? If it is, than u should ask urself : on what basis that i judge whether in this situation a player should first revive or try to kill enemies first, would be more appropiate?

Who is to decide? the only anwser is : those with the power to enforce their rules. And those are not the devs, as long as they dont ban anybody for not being a teamplayer. Those are the admins and the majority of players. We all play a game that was intented to play as team-based game (various things encouraging teamplay show this) but we all play for FUN and u should respect that others have a different way of achieving FUN than you.

And thats only my opinion.

I dont understand how is that playing a wrong game, games only provide opportunities, the more complex the game, the more metagame i can have in which I decide how to play.
If somebody decides that his only goal is to achieve all the medals than power to him. As long as it does not directly interfere with my gameplay experience (an example of a direct influence would be tking me so he gots the bridge constructed (which is a team effort, so much different from a person planting a charge on his own) im fine.

[Catwiesel]

High pingers do not make you lag. Stop the drama.

I am not convinced of that.
In fact until someone explains to me where the serverwide lag is comming from suddenly on a random server and goes away when the high ping guy leaves I would rather tend to the opposite.

[xxcommodusxx]

of course, when the majority of players will think in the same way u do that player u just stole planting credit from should obey in the meaning that he might get kicked if he for example tk's u to prevent that from happening. But if u do happen to be on a server with people more like-minded as me then u wouldn be able to kick the guy, and the tk would be valid in the eyes of majority, thus the truth would be ours.
What im saying is that the only morality u get on a server in a game is that of the most players having it.

I don't think it has anything to do with a moral issue, but to me it comes down to the following points;

1. He didn't state that he didn't want anyone to arm his charge.
2. Normally when playing a team based game I expect players on my team to want teammates to assist them win.

Based upon those two things I am naturally going to try and assist my teammates. If they don't want assistance then they can voice that using VOIP or text chat, depending on whether or not I think it will affect my team's chances of victory I will listen. TK'ing someone is never an acceptable for of communication, unless you are trying to communicate the fact that you are a cock-face.

And, the reason I brought up the dev's intentions when designing the game actually has quite a bit of relevance as it directly influences point #2 that I listed above. If they hadn't of included those features and stressed the importance of team play then I would not be under the assumption that this game is meant to be played in a team fashion.

The only rules every player should apply to are those of social behaviour (dont tk on purpose, behave normally, dont cheat, dont exploit beyond common sense).

I don't understand how you can say something like this as it completely reinforces my point. The rules, as well as the mechanics of the game, allow you to arm someone else's explosive, you say that we shouldn't because some people might not like that. I say that we shouldn't worry whether someone else wants us to arm their charges or not, the primary objective of the game is to win and outside of cheating or exploiting something that is unintentionally within the game you should use the tools effectively at your disposal to do so. I will most definitely not change my style of play so that someone else can increase some stat that has absolutely no bearing on the match going on. On top of that the guy did intentionally TK, as stated in the first post.

[Cr4shOverride]

Szak I know it's just your point of view and that's cool and i'm not gonna argue about it. However it's my point of view that if i'm playing attack and the team's spent 15 minutes trying to arm a single charge because the enemies defence is good then i'm gonna finish off someone elses plant if there's one available even if it means they're gonna tk me for it or whine or maybe even try and kick me off the server, i'll take it for the team.

As for the rambo medic thing I see where your coming from but seeing as medics play a supporting role it doesn't affect the game as much unless in future they open up a new campaign where the main objective is to find and revive the commander and all the medics are to busy hunting frags.

[Szakalot]

i dont understand how double arming one explosive is assistance to the armer. I dont even want to discuss how noob-behaviour is that (though since i make such a 'controversial' statement ill just say: u can do a far better job killing nearby enemies than boosting the arming from 4 to 2 seconds. If u sacrifice urself to arm the dyno, and die, u essentialy weakened the push on the objective by one person. First kill, than plant, unless ur playing on a noob server that wont punish u for that.
Like i said, if u play on a server with most people agreeing ur point, than ull be just fine kicking the guy that tk's u for interfering in his business. And because of the devs encouraging teamwork, u will have lots agreeing with u, thats truth as well.

But people change their minds. In W:ET more than 90% etpro servers i played on kick people for doing objectives. Why? Because people changed their mind. From doing objective and winning 'wooah-important' pub play majority decided that they want to play team deathmatch. Remember : im not saying whats good, whats wrong. Im just stating an opinion that, from my POV double tapping dynos is not only dangerous, risky and not cost-efficient, but it might also irritate the planter. If this was game breaking than i wouldnt even dare to state an opinion like that in a community so 'all for teamwork at pubs'. But since its really a minor thing im just saying out loud that imo u should respect that some prefer their dynos to be planted on their own without (this is personal experience ) some freaking noob jumping in my sight stealing my arm while im not even able to double tap as his fat smelly ass blocked my 'arming tool - dyno' path of view. I just dont need assistance like that.
Ur idea seems like medics whining at people that they tap out (even though not tapping out might help the team) because they want to spawn fresh.

The primary objective of ur game is to win, while for me its achieving any goal i decided to put ahead of me before the map (which, mind u, is usually hard teamwork-related).
You wont change ur style of play, but only future will show whether, after getting all those achievements, people will find other ways of playing the game, even on ranked servers, like for example doing a frag fest.

and i wonder : if i stated that dont want anybody interfere with my charge, would u respect that and let my do it on my own?

EDIT:

Szak I know it's just your point of view and that's cool and i'm not gonna argue about it. However it's my point of view that if i'm playing attack and the team's spent 15 minutes trying to arm a single charge because the enemies defence is good then i'm gonna finish off someone elses plant if there's one available even if it means they're gonna tk me for it or whine or maybe even try and kick me off the server, i'll take it for the team.

arming a charge thats abandoned by the planter (because he died/ran away/whatever) is perfectly fine imo and i certainly wouldnt tk anybody for it.
Hell i tked a person in a case like this only once, and thats when the guy rushed to arm my plant while blocking ME from planting, which even caused my death later on(took to long to arm)

edit#2:
As for the rambo medic thing I see where your coming from but seeing as medics play a supporting role it doesn't affect the game as much unless in future they open up a new campaign where the main objective is to find and revive the commander and all the medics are to busy hunting frags.

And what would u do if there is a team consisting of 8 players with u being one engineer and everyone else a medic, with the 'revive commander' objective? Kick them all of the server if they all wanted to hunt frags?
Why being an objective class should in any way force u to keep rushing the primary objective? If the obj is to hack a shield generator, and im (just an example) sniping in the hills (or for the anti-hillhuggers) busy disabling deployables and vehicles, should i be kicked because i dont play for the direct objective completion?
What if i decided that i want to kill everyone with a GPMG, and im the only soldier on the team on like outskirts. Should i be to blame because my team wants to finish the objective, while none of them will willingly switch to a soldier class?

U see, ur trying to impose responsibilites on people,
double tapping a plant is also imposing responsibility on the original planter (how? because u force him to play for the win, and not for, for example, his stats)
And im saying, let everyone play their game as long as it does not directly interfere with my experience.

[xxcommodusxx]

and i wonder : if i stated that dont want anybody interfere with my charge, would u respect that and let my do it on my own?

Just like I said in my post, if I thought it wouldn't interfere with the team I am on winning the map I will not interfere and in fact promote pretty much anything someone wants. Just some things I wanted to point out;

The primary objective of ur game is to win, while for me its achieving any goal i decided to put ahead of me before the map (which, mind u, is usually hard teamwork-related).

Actually the primary objective of the game is to win, just because you want to work on a secondary (or possibly even tertiary) objective such as increasing stats doesn't mean that the primary objective of the game has changed.

But since its really a minor thing im just saying out loud that imo u should respect that some prefer their dynos to be planted on their own without (this is personal experience ) some freaking noob jumping in my sight stealing my arm while im not even able to double tap as his fat smelly ass blocked my 'arming tool - dyno' path of view. I just dont need assistance like that.

What I am quoting above is an example of what we call a strawman argument. Never once were we discussing the idea that it was better to push someone out of the way and steal their charge, that is something that you have added into the conversation which is muddying the clarity of the topic. We were discussing assistance, what you describe is interference.

Like i said, if u play on a server with most people agreeing ur point, than ull be just fine kicking the guy that tk's u for interfering in his business. And because of the devs encouraging teamwork, u will have lots agreeing with u, thats truth as well.

Again, you call assistance in arming a charge interference. In order to interfere there needs to be some sort of interaction between the two player models, and there wasn't (unless the OP neglected to include information). If someone drops a charge, I assume they want it armed, if they haven't told me otherwise.

i dont understand how double arming one explosive is assistance to the armer. I dont even want to discuss how noob-behaviour is that (though since i make such a 'controversial' statement ill just say: u can do a far better job killing nearby enemies than boosting the arming from 4 to 2 seconds. If u sacrifice urself to arm the dyno, and die, u essentialy weakened the push on the objective by one person. First kill, than plant, unless ur playing on a noob server that wont punish u for that.

The only reason that you call it 'noob-behaviour' is because you make assumptions about the conditions already in play. You assume that there were other enemies to kill, what about if there were no enemies present and the first guy had already planted his charge somewhere and his meter hadn't refilled? That seems like a situation when helping to arm is better (I have seen a lot of games where the charge was a couple of seconds late, so there is a situation where a couple of seconds can make a difference). The fact that I can come up with a single situation disproves your point that it is noobish-behavior as that is a sweeping generalization that can be easily disproved.

[Szakalot]

Just like I said in my post, if I thought it wouldn't interfere with the team I am on winning the map I will not interfere and in fact promote pretty much anything someone wants. Just some things I wanted to point out;


Actually the primary objective of the game is to win, just because you want to work on a secondary (or possibly even tertiary) objective such as increasing stats doesn't mean that the primary objective of the game has changed.

Is a game an independent entity that stated its wishes to u (perhaps in ur dreams?;) just jk here, nvm that)? I dont know how the game is supposed to be played because the game never told me that. Devs encouraged me to play for the team win, cooperate and such, and i feel like it ill do it. But i dont feel obligated in any way. I bought the game to have fun, and thats it.



What I am quoting above is an example of what we call a strawman argument. Never once were we discussing the idea that it was better to push someone out of the way and steal their charge, that is something that you have added into the conversation which is muddying the clarity of the topic. We were discussing assistance, what you describe is interference.

Again, you call assistance in arming a charge interference. In order to interfere there needs to be some sort of interaction between the two player models, and there wasn't (unless the OP neglected to include information). If someone drops a charge, I assume they want it armed, if they haven't told me otherwise.


True, i guess i got a bit too personal as i just recalled that really irritating example i posted earlier. Still, if somebody wants to assist they would be better of killing anyone in sight or...


The only reason that you call it 'noob-behaviour' is because you make assumptions about the conditions already in play. You assume that there were other enemies to kill, what about if there were no enemies present and the first guy had already planted his charge somewhere and his meter hadn't refilled? That seems like a situation when helping to arm is better (I have seen a lot of games where the charge was a couple of seconds late, so there is a situation where a couple of seconds can make a difference). The fact that I can come up with a single situation disproves your point that it is noobish-behavior as that is a sweeping generalization that can be easily disproved.

...or if there is none to kill gain a positional advantage. They only time a double tap would be appropiate is when everyone on the opposing team is dead (assumed dead is as fine, but the risk is involved) and have a respawn wave taking so long that even if u double tap, u will still have enough time to get to the best advanteogus position possible (which is the closest nice spot to their spawn usually, but that may wary too).

The fact that u can come up with a single situation that proves me wrong does not justify entitling sth not noobish just because it sucks in every other case.

Noobish behaviour does not need to lead to defeat every time.
The game has its random factors, sth u could call luck, and above all, players might behave randomly too.


An example :
ur playing 12v12, ur in a titan fighting cyclops in the open. U manage to defeat it with 1%, and ur an enginner. U can essentialy do 3 things:
-run for cover, repair
-repair at the spot (ur in the open, vulnerable to counter attack)
-repair above 25%, run for cover, repair 100%.

Normally, (that is, in the majority of situations) the behaviour maximing ur chances of survival would be the the latter. Repairing over 25% at the spot ASAP will allow u to survive one projectile (be it strocket/obliterator shot/avt/plasma cannon shot from a dessy coming around), if u can survive one projectile u have a chance of reacting (killing the threat, jumping out and repairing, etc.) This is from all the experience me/my clanmates/lots of comp players i know/dignitas (just to make the stakes higher:)) usually the best thing u can do, and will increase ur chances of survival to maximum. Assuming of course, that u dont have any knowledge of surroundings (so that u base ur decision only on the tank status)
BUT
running for cover with 1% health might just saved u if there was 2 obliterators positioning within that time, and u luckily managed to hide just in time to remain safe.

If u had performed the standard procedure (repair 25%), u would have died.
BUT
running for cover with 1% might be ur doom as there was this technician coming out with a sticky grenade, and he killed u.

STILL
running away for cover with 1% health (assuming it takes some considerable amount of time to hid of course) would be a thing that i called a noob behaviour.
Of course this is only mine and a few people i know opinion. Every situation can be subjective. Im not saying i would want every server, regardless of what people think implement auto ban for doubling dynos. Im just saying i would like it if people changed their minds on the topic, and thats why im stating my POV on this public forum.

Coming back to double tappling, usually, (its only my opinion) double tapping results in a fail at that particular push, and thus i call it a noob behaviour, because i call things (mistakes) that lead to direct loss noob-like.

[xxcommodusxx]

Alright, after reading your last post and reviewing your other ones, I don't actually think we disagree on this topic. It appears that we both want players to have fun (something I haven't really stated in these posts before now) and have some sort of decency (no cheating, exploiting, etc...).

If I am understanding you correctly you believe that under typical circumstances two people arming a HE or Plasma charge to be inefficient and often it would be more beneficial to the team to have the second player providing covering fire, planting their own charge, or doing something else completely unrelated. I would assume that very often you are right, and in those situations I completely agree, I think that each player needs to use situational awareness in order to determine the best course of action, however I think that there are situations where it is useful to have two people arm an explosive and of all the things to disagree on, this is pretty minor.

I also think that anyone reading this thread has enough input from both of us to make up their mind on the matter. I think I'm right and I am sure that you believe yourself to be correct, and I doubt we are really going to sway one another. So, I'm off to other threads. GL HF.

[Szakalot]

Well we came down to discussing sth very subjective (double tapping or providing cover, a valid behaviour (in some cases) or sth generally nooby(that even with the greatest situational awereness is to risky)) and as such there is nothing definitive to say. Plus on my side, i think that since its so dangerous to pull of u might just in the process allow the planter to boost his stats if thats his wish. And just to add, ive never played ETQW for stats (medic whoring can support this).

Glad i managed to discuss sth so controversial without the usual teamwork-fanatic flamefest i tend to get from pub players which (they might be right) think that ffa playing should be as important to anyone (like a comp player) as it is to them.
Good talking to u, had a nice time. But im still willing to discuss if there are other interesting points to be made, i like being convinced:)

edit:
oh and i guess its the difference in game experience that might cause the clash, as i play(ed) way more competition than i will ever play on pub servers. And comp is 6on6, double tapping is like a suicide there in almost any case.

[PhotonScatter]

Of course it's going to be different in comp, Szak :P.

You have to set up the entire scenario for double tapping, and it comes in part from pubbing. In pubs, the inherent lack of communication leads, quite often, to 2 aggressors jumping down to plant. In a 6v6 this would never happen, unless, communication broke down. It simply is NOT efficient to take away 2 guns at the same time.

Suppose, however, 2 guys do drop down. You have 2 situations really. You've either cleared the area, or you haven't. In the first case, it's not going to matter. Double tap or not, it's going to get armed. In the latter case, the double tap may be the difference between an arm or not. So why wouldn't you attempt it in the first place?

As an aside, one of my biggest pet peeves is when I've dropped down to plant, and halfway through it, another aggressor jumps down, sets off a mine and kills us both. Or, when you've gotten a plant, and died, and the only other guy there to defend it decides to attempt to plant his own charge, dies and the charge(s) get disarmed. That's another discussion though, heh.

So what, exactly, is the ideal planting situation? Well, of course you can try to kill everyone defending, which can work in against a weak pub team, or you can try to sneak plant. For the other 70 percent of situations, people should swallow their pride, desire for stats, etc, and work for the team. What I would do is assign a guy who's sole job is to get the plant and arm it if possible. Then assign another guy whose job is to cover and finish the plant if need be, then plant his own. But, who am I kidding though? It's pub play.

[Knightex]

@PhotonScatter

I've seen at least one aggressors/soldiers cover another while he plants plenty of times. No VOIP or even team-chat in most cases. I guess it's just WHAT server and WHAT time you are playing. Sometimes, 75% of the players are vets who are mature and experienced.

Unfortunately, I dunno what the exclamation is like cause my ping is too high to play on it when there's over 12 players.

[PhotonScatter]

Yeah, we actually don't have that problem on ! much. Sometimes when the server is full of newer players, that issue may arise, but for the most part, the team play and communication is excellent.

Trouble is, ! is almost always full, and when I stray away from my home and play on other servers, 'teamplay' is almost horrific. I might as well play without a microphone because there will be no response, not even bother with vsays. We'll see stuff like 6 aggressors attempt to plant at the same time, only to all die before any of them can finish a plant, while the rest are 'covering' from the hills as snipers, without radar.

[Knightex]

Yeah, we actually don't have that problem on ! much. Sometimes when the server is full of newer players, that issue may arise, but for the most part, the team play and communication is excellent.

Trouble is, ! is almost always full, and when I stray away from my home and play on other servers, 'teamplay' is almost horrific. I might as well play without a microphone because there will be no response, not even bother with vsays. We'll see stuff like 6 aggressors attempt to plant at the same time, only to all die before any of them can finish a plant, while the rest are 'covering' from the hills as snipers, without radar.

Not when dom or you are there.:p I play on Pink Taco 95% of the time and it's about half as bad unless there's at least two admins on. If I wasn't trying to make a really good inpression so I could get into dR without VOIP, I would say other things...

[GreasyDogMeat]

Bad behavior would be something like an engineer in the previous Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory disarming your TNT so he can plant his own.

Taking out your pad to help a fellow soldier arm an explosive is NOT bad behavior. Its helpful and speeds the process and I would welcome someone coming along to help me plant.

[Rapier]

The lulu? server has quite a long ban list for such reasons... The most enforcing admins dont play that often anymore. Dont know how the quality is at the moment.

The ban might be a misclick of the admin or just a kick for a slot? Kick has a short time ban included. Sure it should have been announced anyway.

I was banned because console said I was :).

Its not the lulu server, its a server in europe. The guy that banned me still plays on but I wont go there anymore. No point if you get banned for taking out his radar :dance:

[Szakalot]

Bad behavior would be something like an engineer in the previous Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory disarming your TNT so he can plant his own.

Taking out your pad to help a fellow soldier arm an explosive is NOT bad behavior. Its helpful and speeds the process and I would welcome someone coming along to help me plant.

You would but for an example i wouldnt. And i want people to respect that because i need my ego boosted up by some medals. Its my plant, wanna help? cover me or plant ur own in an entirely different spot so that the counter-attack will be spread out. Its helpful for U, but for me its irritating. Its BAD behaviour in my opinion and i will prevent that in any way i can, its not in urs and u will help/welcome help when it appears.

[kaya]

You would but for an example i wouldnt. And i want people to respect that because i need my ego boosted up by some medals. Its my plant, wanna help? cover me or plant ur own in an entirely different spot so that the counter-attack will be spread out. Its helpful for U, but for me its irritating. Its BAD behaviour in my opinion and i will prevent that in any way i can, its not in urs and u will help/welcome help when it appears.

I think you should play alone against bots, you don't like teamplay so why play online? medals? well you will get 1 point in your stats and 1 point closer to that shiny medal even if someone ruin your day by helping you.

What is your ingamename? Just so i don't help you by misstake :)

[Senethro]

Szakalot is a trolling genius. I've enjoyed this thread.

[signofzeta]

About helping planting, isn't it faster to help plant, than to plant your own, instead of planting yours, and wasting all that charge. If something goes wrong, and you both die, at least one of you have charge left.

You know that your charge for the plant drops to zero once you stick it to the surface, not when the bomb starts ticking. So by saving that charge, you have a good chance to plant another, instead of waiting for the charge to fill up again.

[Szakalot]

I think you should play alone against bots, you don't like teamplay so why play online? medals? well you will get 1 point in your stats and 1 point closer to that shiny medal even if someone ruin your day by helping you.

What is your ingamename? Just so i don't help you by misstake :)

You obviously didnt read what i posted here before. Cant blame u though, as this is a forum for a game, and most gamers (if the game is good) have an average attention span on the forum smaller than on their english classes when being mocked by the teacher.
I stated numerous times that i AM a teamplayer. My win/loss ratio (1.90) is so small (hm?) just because i play offence mostly, which is harder to win imo. And above all if i see the other team getting owned by mine than ill switch even to a lost case, just because i prefer a challenge over owning noobs at their spawn any time.
I just think that people shouldnt do this witchhunt against players that decided to play for their medals. I want people to respect me if i decide to play for my medals too. And there is more than one reason for playing online, challenge being one of them as bots are very predictable and good positioning can beat them really really hard.
I dont really follow the equation of "playing online = playing for the team win"

Szakalot is a trolling genius. I've enjoyed this thread.

I find it amusing that u call me troll even though i try to emphasize that this is only my opinion, discuss as politely as i can over such a controversial topic even though its 1 vs ALL discussion over a (for the time being) lost case. Or maybe thats what u refer to as 'genius'? One way or another, im flattered and i expect ur insight and precious input being posted here on a regular basis. Keep to topic though, as i dont want any post that boosts my ego deleted just because its that useless, ok?


About helping planting, isn't it faster to help plant, than to plant your own, instead of planting yours, and wasting all that charge. If something goes wrong, and you both die, at least one of you have charge left.

You know that your charge for the plant drops to zero once you stick it to the surface, not when the bomb starts ticking. So by saving that charge, you have a good chance to plant another, instead of waiting for the charge to fill up again.

Isnt it better for the second soldier to w8, provide cover and try to arm it to the end if the original planter dies? I find it way more effective, namely for the fact that the defenders usually, after killing the first planter, go somewhere else and u can do a very tricky sneak plant. Or maybe they are out of nades, ammo/reloading obliterator/whatever so u can plant it to the end with success. Double planting usually kills both planters, at least from my experience. And besides :
its not like u cut the arm plant to the half, and u know why?
Because there is more to planting than arming the very charge, u need to :
-get close enough (can be difficult if the other soldier is blocking ur view)
-pull out the arming tool
-aim at the charge. Those 3 little things usually take about a second. A second is quite precious here, u could kill some1 in that second, u could do lots of stuff in that second, and above all : its already at least 25% done, and its only 3 more seconds to go, and if the planter dies u will still have the chance to finish it with the same amount of time left.

[GorkerMorker]

Yesterday I was sitting in the minigun seat of the titan at slipgate. And people just refused to step aside for the driver (who complained about it french over VOIP). I was a bit tired and drunk, so I simply started clearing the pedestrians away with my minigun so he could continue.

[KeFeaR]

Yesterday I was sitting in the minigun seat of the titan at slipgate. And people just refused to step aside for the driver (who complained about it french over VOIP). I was a bit tired and drunk, so I simply started clearing the pedestrians away with my minigun so he could continue.

That's the way to do it, recurring dumbassery usually results in anti-teamloving behaviour from my part.

Except what happened in my sig, now THAT was an accident.

[slam420]

What does filing a complaint do anyways?

i think once you get so many like 2 or 3 its a automatic "kick" but u can rejoin in a few minutes, similiar to a vote/kick.....

[Leethal]

it should take some xp out of you when you get a complain.

but then, you'd lose xp from those elite ninjas who complain when there's no reason.