Infiltrator/Covert Ops help

[Hazode]

Hi, there's no point in denying it, I'm a noob. I read some threads and I am wondering some things.

1) How can you spot someone in disguise?

2) What's the stroyent->health technique?

3) What's the problem with using the "f" key to get out your hacking tool when hacking or disguising?

P.S. I've never really played on the servers cos all the servers I try and get on are either full of dicks that won't ready, or are empty.

[Thundermuffin]

1. They sound different footstep wise, they make the opposite side's out of breath sound, and you can shoot them and it will be the enemy hitsound instead of the "Do I look like a Strogg?/Strogg on Strogg!"

2. Use - or + to put stroyent -> health or health -> stroyent. If your binds are default - is ammo to health I think.

3. It wastes time; if it's clear just have the tool already out and if it isn't just clear the area then select the tool manually. I always notice a slowdown when I hit my use key.

[Szakalot]

1) additionally, you probably wont notice this, just starting up the game, but the disguised enemies always have the default weapon; the assualt rifle or the lacerator; a soldier running with an assualt rifle is suspicious -> normally people use the heavier guns, you can also eliminate potential infiltrators seeing that those people carry the 'different than default' weapons; a medic with a shotgun cannot be a disguise, or a covert with a sniper rifle.

Note that the disguised cannot fire their weapons, cannot select a grenade or a tool, or a pistol; they only have the default gun (which they cannot shoot) and a knife.

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

The quickest way to bust a disguise is by firing a round into him and listen at the hitsound or look at the colour of your crosshair hit.

It is better to preselect your tools and press left mouse button to use them. That way you'll have your hands free on WASD to move about to dodge etc, or to jump away, pull your gun and shoot. Also, using f takes longer, which can be deadly especially when you need that 1 tap to keep the progress alive.

Concerning stroyent-->health, it's called stroydown. It's best to bind it to a key you always have in reach. I put it on my middle mouse button, others put it on 'r', since you don't have to reload as strogg anyway. Once you get used to using it more, you'll find out you're much much stronger. It's good for constructing mining lasers too ;)

[BobMem]

Firstly: Stroy_down is probably the most important single action for Strogg, you'll live twice as long and therefore be running to the objective half as often.

Secondly: If someone is disguised as a covert/infiltrator they will appear to have the standard assault rifle/lacerator. As you can only select scoped or sniper this means they must be an enemy in disguise. This can be quite hard to spot as Strogg but the scoped AR stands out like a sore thumb so shoot their asses!

Thirdly: If you're playing medic shoot anyone at least once you suspect might be in disguise, you can always offer health packs to anyone who is on your side!

[Deeder]

WSAD = nub player

rebind your keys.

I prefer YGHJ, centered in the keyboard it allows you easy reach to all the buttons on the left or right. By playing witht default WSAD keys, you're limited to only binding keys within a few inches on the right, and on the left you're limited by your location and have only a handful more to bind.


Tips to spot the disgusied

they have low health and run from medics, shoot them.
they stand around with their knives out, shoot them.
Watch your radar, notice any red triangles turn green? follow and kill said triangle.

PAY ATTN. ENEMY DISGUISED AS... UH ME!
ask yourself, who said that, and where did they die?

The breathe trick is probably the hardest to notice as there are many other sounds in the games, the storgg infiltrator easily breathes much heavier than the GDF, it is atleast louder imo.


Now, more importantly, some tips to be more believable with a disguise on.

Dont go through FRIENDLY trip/prox mines (becuase you look like the enemy, the enemy will expect you to set off your own teams mines, which does not happen, so avoid routes with friendly mines at all costs, less the enemy notice you cross a red trip laser and not die.

I already mentioned transferring ammo to health to appear to be taking medpacks.

NEVER RUN WITH YOUR KNIFE OUT, infact- if you are disguiseed, you ONLY take out your knife for the kill. (backstab only) One shot, one kill. if youu miss a backstab the enemy will hear your knife and will react to you, usually giving you only seconds to finish him.

you should always have your gun out if you're disguised, people keep their knivevs out because its your only defensse, and they need to feel safe. trust me, you're safer with your knife out..

Tip #2021
When chasing someone running from you, who is unaware of your presence, and you wantn him to stop, tell him to stop and you'll throw down med packcs on globalchat, he may not notice who says it, and he'll stop for as econd, thats your chance. its a dirty trick but it works a lot. it works also if you're trying to snipe someone (if they dont know who is shooting at them anyway)

keep all your surroundings in your mind at all times, sounds all metaphoric and shit but when you're in a room, remember where the enemy mines are, remember where the entrances are- remember if you trp a prox mine, it will damage you, but KILL the guy following behinid you.

When knifing in a room full of people - take yourr closest enemy, and circle strafe him to keep him in the LINE OF FIRE of his friends, he will most liekly get TK'd. If you find yourself in a room with 2 or 3 people shooting at you, it may be time to find that prox mine you left active ;)

more to follow.

[Deeder]

you should always have your gun out if you're disguised, people keep their knivevs out because its your only defensse, and they need to feel safe. trust me, you're safer with your knife out..

safer with your GUN out. my mistake

[Szakalot]

well, people keep knives out to gain speed when strafe jumping; running around with the smg with no enemies to spot you seems like an awful waste of time; additionally, you wont look suspicious with the knife if you do that and run around, as its a common sight

im also amused by your arrogance of considering all WSAD players as newbs. There is a difference in having an opinion and enforcing that opinion on others.

[whiteaden]

WSAD = nub player

in nearly every single post by you that I've read you're bashing people, configs, playing styles and what not...

what is it with you? why so frigging hostile?!

[Deeder]

its fact.

i can get to more keys than you can. i can count them but im lazy.

but if you like having good access to really big keys (left shift,alt,control, etc,etc,) then you must have fat fingers. my advice is to exersize or buy one of those XL keyboards for obese people (or warcraft players, whatever is more poltically correct for you)


just but your left on
Y(forward)
H (back peddle)
G(strafe left) J(straft right)

you'll be like dang i got all these keys now wtf do i do!? quick binds for the win!

you may be comfortableand play well with your keyconfiguration. so i'll be more specific to he statement i made previous.

you may not be a nub, but you are limiting yourself to keys that are easily accessable.

also take note of your thumb with the WSAD config.
all it can really do is hit the spacebar.

on YHGJ-you can use spacebar, right alt and right control.


if you dont like you arms being closer together due to the 6 inch displacement, move your keyboard to the left approx 6 inches.

[Szakalot]

bigger keys means easier access. I do not limit myself with WSAD because i dont need more keys, i got most of the stuff on my mouse anyways.

It would be limiting yourself in an RTS, but to each his own.

There are other things one would need to develop in order to reach that limit of yours.

Sure, your setup gives you more keys, but how much time are you willing to spend to master that? Well, you stated you had a lot, but not everyone does.

What is more important than efficiency is cost/efficiency.
After YEARS of using WSAD (i started using that in platform games, before i even had my hands on my first fps) i still mis-push a button now and then; i suspect id do that more often with that more sophisticated setup.

And speaking of limits -> you can always buy one of those gaming boards, that has a design setup specifically for fpses, with a lot of big buttons freely available around the hand.

[whiteaden]

its fact.

i can get to more keys than you can. i can count them but im lazy.

I don't need any keys except movement, crouch & jump shoot & lean... I have my mouse for tool selection & grenades... don't use V-says unless I'm bored...

all the buttons I use?

WASD, Shift, Space, Ctrl, R(eload), Q&E for leaning, 5 mousebuttons

oh and 1,2,3 for weapons...


if I would move them, I'd move em to ESDF or TFGH...
nothing further to the right...

[Deeder]

I don't need any keys except movement, crouch & jump shoot & lean... I have my mouse for tool selection & grenades... don't use V-says unless I'm bored...

all the buttons I use?

WASD, Shift, Space, Ctrl, R(eload), Q&E for leaning, 5 mousebuttons

oh and 1,2,3 for weapons...


if I would move them, I'd move em to ESDF or TFGH...
nothing further to the right...


so i can be sure that while you switch weapons, you can not move forward.
thanks for this tip.

123 would be accessed with which finger? the middle finger?? the same middle finger on the W?
so - how do you change weapons and move at the same time?

you must be a sitting duck.


I can have each one of my tools and deployables on their own key, accessible with a simple slide of hand.


have youu evverr heard of FITTS LAW?

its a standard equation used to determine the amount of time it takes for a human to point at an object.

fitts law was used to design the computer mice we use today.

fitts law also states that any tension in your muscles results in a loss off accuracy (accuracy being determined by the amount of time / distance travelled


my point? the more buttons you use on your mosuue the harder it is for you to aim at a target and fire.


for those of you who want to research this further you'll eventually come to the conclusion that your fire button is best placed OFF THE MOUSE.

perhaps spacebarr or somethingg accessable by the thumb, or any digit that doesnt impeed your ability to move your player.

@white- if those are all the commands you have keybound- you should reconsider. I bet when you are medic you are one of those medics that runs to the corpse, stands for 5 seconds, finally gets out the defibs, starts shocking, miss, get killed by flanking enemy.

the easier it is for you to get your tools /weapons out the easier it is to pown. I can swithc from AR to defibs all in a single jump, and you'll beback up and before you're out of spawn protection you already have a plethora of medpacs at your feet.


all becaucse they have their keys bound

and if you're too clumbsy and find yourrself faceRolling your keyboard... you seriously might want to look into XL keyboards. not everyone has hands the size of an asian girl.

[Thundermuffin]

Why do you even use your keyboard for anything but crouch, movement, jump and sprint? Stop kidding yourself about how leet you and your setup are. I can't even use WASD (Or any thing thats like TFGH) even if I turn all my backlighting but those 4 keys off; I use the arrow keys and do great in (useless) pubs and after playing promod a total of like 25ish times since last year not too bad in that either.

[ZeBlob]

Heh, I used to use the arrows too back in W:ET but I decided to switch to WASD to simplify my ET:QW configs. The point being that there's no "ultimate" setup. What's most important is having something your comfortable using and playing with. WASD is what's the most familiar for most players while still being very accessible and easy to learn for newbies.

As for mister know-it-all, in the one or two games I've seen you in, all I saw was another lemming with a big target strapped to his back aka an easy frag made easier by the fact that you were only using your knife.

[Sgt.Smegma]

@Deeder:

1. thank you for calling me a nub....

2. wasd offers more than enough keys for me (ctrl, shift, caps, q, e, r, f, g, y(z), c, v and don´t forget numeric keys). with that setup i don´t have to lift my fingers from basic movement-keys in most situations, especially the ones where it´s important. ...o.k. i cannot sprint and crouch same time.... but who needs.
smart config (context) makes it possible! and a g9!


3. movement is as important as aiming imho

Sgt.2Cents

[whiteaden]

I'm fast enough to tap the corresponding button (1,2,3) while moving, I might 'not' move for about 0.05 second, but you won't notice due to the ping differences, and so won't I... :)

quick fingers & mediocre setup >> slow fingers & 'uber' leet setup...

regarding your other comment about my setup?

I've been a solid teammate whenever I play, I don't play medic much...

also, 5 mouse buttons

- Left mouse: shoot
- Right mouse: scope
- middle mouse: stroydown (ammo->health)
- mouse4: tools (1x primary tool (defib, pliers, 3rd eye, Vampire) 2x secondary tool (medpack, mines, smoke grenade, ammo pack etc.
- mouse5: grenades

correction regarding my setup, I also have a button bound for deployables & supplycrates...

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

Note that if you jump, you have time to switch weapon without losing any speed. That's how I do it. You can also use your mousewheel to select weapons of course. In fact, I switch pistol/rifle every few steps. Pistol to gain speed, and while jumping change to rifle. You'll keep most of your speed while you're still holding your main gun out. Then swap back to pistol to get the speed up again. I do that a lot when turning corners etc, in case there's an opponent there.

and on topic: footsteps is the 1 single best method for finding out disguises without directly shooting anyone.

[Deeder]

in nearly every single post by you that I've read you're bashing people, configs, playing styles and what not...

what is it with you? why so frigging hostile?!


Well my posts are not without their own rationale.
And many if not all my statements are followed by an explaination as to why there better than whatever the other post i was referrencing at the time.

as for the hostility, well, dont take this so personally. we're talking about game play not players.

[whiteaden]

Well my posts are not without their own rationale.
And many if not all my statements are followed by an explaination as to why there better than whatever the other post i was referrencing at the time.
and every statement you post is an opinionated explanation, in your case it might be true, while in my case it might be VERY untrue, heck my brain works different from yours, I can bet a million on that.. lolz

as for the hostility, well, dont take this so personally. we're talking about game play not players.

I'm not taking this personal, I'm just interested in the reason behind all... it could be a conspiracy after all.. lol

[Szakalot]

Well my posts are not without their own rationale.

saying

users of X = nubs

is not rationale, even if you post YOUR reasons for it. You can reason all you want but within the arguments, dont get meta-argumentic on people (use an outside argument that has little to do with the discussion at hand).
Its as if an anti abortionist in a debate pointed out that his opposition smoked pot in his youth, and therefore is incapable of a reasoned opinion regarding abortion.

But hey, we are cool, so dont feel like its a start of flame, if you want to continue discussing anything that will come up feel free to, me and White were just pointing out to the manner in which you presented your ideas.

[Deeder]

Well who's reasons would you like me to use for my explainations then? yours?/

would you like me to forward my posts to you so you may read, strive to understand and then explain it and post it on my behalf?

ska, and whiteaden feel my posts are hostile and I explained that, if you dont like my response, or fail to comprehend it, its your own failing dont put the blame on me for using MY rationality. Seriously, re-reaad what you wrote and think to yourself

When havev you ever done something, and used someone elses understanding to explain your own actions?

You just dont like my reasoning, you dont like how i am right. you have access to the entire keyboard using Y, or U, or T, or R or I or any of those keys to move forward.

but you disgregarded that as you had *NO* rebuttle.

then the subject was changed to hositlity and your goldfish memory failed to stay on topic.

I explained why those keys are better than the default WSAD keys.

Yes, ITS MY OWN RATIONALE.. but honestly, whos would you *EXPECT* me tot use? yours? you dont agree with me. I do not agree that WSAD are better than YGHJ for all the reasons i listed above.

Stay on topic and if you feel any hostility, ignore it.

[Szakalot]

'logic'; 'logical reasoning' and 'rationale' are not subject to personal opinion, they are very definitive terms used in any kind of scientific proofs, namely math ones.

If you meant something else, than ok, ill replace in my mind 'rationale' with 'my opinion' and it should be fine.

In that context 'users of X = nub' is not 'rationale', its unrationale, hence my reply.

Additionally, while i probably wont respond to the hostility at hand (after all, we are discussing the hostility outside it (since there is none now)) i wont give up this funny argument either.

Having reasons to do something does not equal rationale cause-effect corelation; for example someone can p*** you off, and cause you to behave in a certain one; it wont be a rationale reason.

So i agree with all you just wrote, we had simply a different view on the word, hence the current offtopic.

[Deeder]

ra⋅tion⋅ale  /ˌræʃəˈnæl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rash-uh-nal] Show IPA
Use rationale in a Sentence
–noun 1. the fundamental reason or reasons serving to account for something.
2. a statement of reasons.
3. a reasoned exposition of principles.



A statement of reasons, i liike that, i supplied you with a reason for every claim i made, in any tips ive given out as covert ops/infiltrator.

is that being disputed?

or is it just my claim that nubs use wsad.


All nubs use WSAD. some skilled players also use WSAD.

but if you're a newb, I'd put money on them using default configs.

understand what i mean?

Its not USING those keys, but if you're new to the game, and not very good at FPS, chances are you are nub.

its not using those keys that makes you a nub, but being a nub means you likely use those keys.

however there are better configs than WSAD imo for the reasons stated above.

If they rebound their keys to anything else, they've demonstrated they know how. And its their first step in towards being pro. (as in not a nub)


Get your head out of math textbooks dude, not every word in the english language was devised for the soul purpose of mathematics. and it may be possible, albeit farfetchedd that mathematicians borrowed words and changed their meanings when relating to their expertise?

In law, theyre definitions of words are always different, and always defined before any legal document begins. They do not rely on the lexicographers to be unanimous in their definitions, as im sure they'd claim some sort of copywrite infringment, but thats different.


Also, dont split hairs to try and win an arguement.

[Szakalot]

equation

wsad users = nubs

does not imply any kind of skilled players using wsad as well. If you use wsad your a nub, and if your a nub you use wsad.

If you dont want me to use math base for the argument, dont use math symbols to depict yours.
If you use a model, ill judge what you said inside that model.

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

I am hurt now, I used to be proud of the fact that the WASD letters wore off my keys :(

[pazwic]

Why do you even use your keyboard for anything but crouch, movement, jump and sprint? Stop kidding yourself about how leet you and your setup are. I can't even use WASD (Or any thing thats like TFGH) even if I turn all my backlighting but those 4 keys off; I use the arrow keys and do great in (useless) pubs and after playing promod a total of like 25ish times since last year not too bad in that either.

Ya I oly use keyboard to walk and sprint everthing else is in the mouse

[sakhmet]

Szakalot a soldier running with an assualt rifle is suspicious -> normally people use the heavier guns,

I don’t always switch to heavy weapons while soldier. It depends on why I’m going soldier. If I want to plant a charge on something, I may not want to be slowed down with a heavy weapon, and prefer the fire power of the assault rifle over a machine pistol. If you’re going to shoot a “suspicious “ teammate, I suggest a single shot in the leg.

Deeder When knifing in a room full of people - take yourr closest enemy, and circle strafe him to keep him in the LINE OF FIRE of his friends, he will most liekly get TK'd. If you find yourself in a room with 2 or 3 people shooting at you, it may be time to find that prox mine you left active

Great tactic! Do this regardless of class and weapon. Many, many times I have jumped in the middle of a small group of the enemy hopping jigging around while shooting at one or another and watched them shoot each other trying to kill me. When someone does that to you, back peddle away from the group and wait for your clear shot. Also, if you have a team mate in front of you and a doorway in front of him, step to one side or the other so that if someone comes through the door shooting at him, they don’t get an easy line on you too, and it puts you in a position to provide support fire for your team mate.

ZeBlob As for mister know-it-all, in the one or two games I've seen you in, all I saw was another lemming with a big target strapped to his back aka an easy frag made easier by the fact that you were only using your knife

Wow, the guy makes One comment like WASD= Noob and otherwise a lot of interesting advice on the “Tips, Tricks, and Strategies” page, and your all out for blood! And all of you should read your own posts for Pete’s sake, who among us isn’t full of opinions!!!!! Szakalot, whiteaden….. Holy $hit!!!!!

Even on that one, I understand where he’s coming from, it’s about taking it to the next level and customizing your setup. People start out with the standards because there are too many other things to acclimate to when learning the game (noob), but customizing CAN improve both your performance and your enjoyment.

Smegma, if you set your sprint to a toggle switch (on until you turn it off), then you can switch immediately from sprint to crouch and back, I don’t know if that helps you.

[BobMem]

I think everyone who plays this game a lot has a different set-up. Personnally I'm so used to WASD I couldn't change if I tried, does it make me a nub? Maybe, I think my inherent Nub-ness is more likely define that!
Realistically, you're a total newb for one thing only: If you haven't re-bound stroydown to something more useful than +. FACT.

[Szakalot]

Wow, the guy makes One comment like WASD= Noob and otherwise a lot of interesting advice on the “Tips, Tricks, and Strategies” page, and your all out for blood! And all of you should read your own posts for Pete’s sake, who among us isn’t full of opinions!!!!! Szakalot, whiteaden….. Holy $hit!!!!!


Its really more than just that, read his posts around the forums, he certainly made an effort for the better, but it was not always like that.

[whiteaden]

Its really more than just that, read his posts around the forums, he certainly made an effort for the better, but it was not always like that.

yes, I was about to post the same thing (in different words, lol)

but I'll just second this and add: I've read all of his posts, and I've written all of my own, and I haven't been as negative as him in any of my posts without a reason, or an infraction.. lol

[ZeBlob]

Wow, the guy makes One comment like WASD= Noob and otherwise a lot of interesting advice on the “Tips, Tricks, and Strategies” page, and your all out for blood! And all of you should read your own posts for Pete’s sake, who among us isn’t full of opinions!!!!! Szakalot, whiteaden….. Holy $hit!!!!! I only skimmed most of posts (and yours as well for that matter) and he looked like a Crime Master 2.0. I think it's better for him and everyone on this forum if he learned a little humility before it's too late...

Then again, Crime Master vs Szak always managed to get a good laugh out of me. Oh well, it's too late now :(

[Hazode]

ra⋅tion⋅ale  /ˌræʃəˈnæl/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rash-uh-nal] Show IPA
Use rationale in a Sentence
–noun 1. the fundamental reason or reasons serving to account for something.
2. a statement of reasons.
3. a reasoned exposition of principles.



A statement of reasons, i liike that, i supplied you with a reason for every claim i made, in any tips ive given out as covert ops/infiltrator.

is that being disputed?

or is it just my claim that nubs use wsad.


All nubs use WSAD. some skilled players also use WSAD.

but if you're a newb, I'd put money on them using default configs.

understand what i mean?

Its not USING those keys, but if you're new to the game, and not very good at FPS, chances are you are nub.

its not using those keys that makes you a nub, but being a nub means you likely use those keys.

however there are better configs than WSAD imo for the reasons stated above.

If they rebound their keys to anything else, they've demonstrated they know how. And its their first step in towards being pro. (as in not a nub)


Get your head out of math textbooks dude, not every word in the english language was devised for the soul purpose of mathematics. and it may be possible, albeit farfetchedd that mathematicians borrowed words and changed their meanings when relating to their expertise?

In law, theyre definitions of words are always different, and always defined before any legal document begins. They do not rely on the lexicographers to be unanimous in their definitions, as im sure they'd claim some sort of copywrite infringment, but thats different.


Also, dont split hairs to try and win an arguement.

I use WASD for ALL my FPS games, and I play a lot of them. I'm not a nub to FPS's, nor am I experienced. Yes I am a nub of ET:QW, but my button configuration doesn't make me so, it's my inexperience of online play. And regarding the thing about changing equipment without stopping... since I've got long fingers I use my ring finger for 1,2 and index for 3,4,5 and I can reach up to 8, at a push, without leaving the W key behind. I know fully well how to change key bindings, but I don't because I find WASD comfortable, just as I used to think the arrow keys were comfortable back before I realised I only had a few buttons to use to my disposal.

Also thanks for all the tips guys :)

EDIT: I've also just realised that my ring finger, middle finger and my index finger are always on WAD... I'm too used to playing games AND the button config

[BobMem]

Yeah, anyone here go to type stuff on a keyboard at work or something and automatically put your left hand on Shift-A-W-D-Space? I'm straight there!

[whiteaden]

Yeah, anyone here go to type stuff on a keyboard at work or something and automatically put your left hand on Shift-A-W-D-Space? I'm straight there!

yes... as soon as I launch ANY PC my left hand goes to WASD & my right to the mouse... lulz

[Zealot67]

Hazode if u turn team kill off and shoot a ally and it turns red then it means he's a guy in disguise. BTW I just got it my favorite map is volcano. Is there a glitch that makes u a general cause i got a glitch like that once.

[Random Generator]

Theres a glitch that gets you to second objective before first one is done, other than that, no idea.

Meh, I'd rather be called a nub and stick with configs Im used to, then switching to ones that wont work for me, and actually being a noob.

Speaking of, I dont stop to switch weapon, my middle finger (if not making a gesture at a screen) is always on W, ring finger presses 1 2, and index finger presses 3 4 5 6. And considering I would always strafe flank to left, or circling clock-wise, so I dont need to stop. Also, I only need number 2, 1 is my Vsays (Knife is F, decoys right by the side helps)

[BobMem]

I have decoys on right mouse, but knife's still on 1, I still use the default weapon select keys (never F for hack/stroy/paddles/pliers etc though, NO!)

[Random Generator]

Hmm, didnt think of that, gotta try that setup, ty.

Yeh, my USE key is left shift, only use it for parachutes/soft impact/ sniper scope.

[Szakalot]

I have decoys on right mouse, but knife's still on 1, I still use the default weapon select keys (never F for hack/stroy/paddles/pliers etc though, NO!)

arent tools like that under "6"?

Seems inconvienient to push, when you really need it.

[Deeder]

I am not going to explain why WSAD is a poor choice of keys, adopted by gamers who are too lazy to learn how to customize controls.


You know why every FPS is default WSAD? because when you pay employees hourly, even salary-it takes time to decide where to put keys, eliminating options saves money, its a small amount, but why let some coder spend an hour to figure out the best keyconfig, when they can just use default standards and save x amount of $$.

Thats why games come with WSAD.


my posts arent negative or hostile. they just arent sugar coated with your typical politically correct BS.

I want people to reply without having to worry about offending me


Hazode, i will not quote your fill post but here is a portion

know fully well how to change key bindings, but I don't because I find WASD comfortable, just as I used to think the arrow keys were comfortable back before I realised I only had a few buttons to use to my disposal.


Thank you, I am trying to make WSAD, what the arrow keys are to you guys.

You made my point so well in such a concise sentence.

I do see it from your side aswell, I am used to YGHJ, i have used them for over a decade now. You stopped using arrow keys for the same reasons i stopped using WSAD.. although I never really 'used' them, i wouldnt bother with a config unttil i knew i would enjoy the game.


You may not have a need to use more keys than you already are.. but you should ask yourself, are you COMFORTABLE, or just COMPLACIENT?

[Szakalot]

I am not going to explain why WSAD is a poor choice of keys, adopted by gamers who are too lazy to learn how to customize controls.


You know why every FPS is default WSAD? because when you pay employees hourly, even salary-it takes time to decide where to put keys, eliminating options saves money, its a small amount, but why let some coder spend an hour to figure out the best keyconfig, when they can just use default standards and save x amount of $$.

Thats why games come with WSAD.

thats bs; WSAD proved to be comfortable for the majority of fps pc gamers, thats why its adopted, and thats why its default config setting.

Why bother making a new revolutionary "YGHJ" for like the 0,0001% of gamers, with the rest shaking their heads in confusement and resetting them to what they are comfortable with?
OH sure ITS ALL ABOUT THE MONEY, and there is a conspiracy ruling over the world.

WSAD is enough for the vast majority of pc fps gamers. Live with that.
Feel free to think how awesome you are, not going with the crowd.


my posts arent negative or hostile. they just arent sugar coated with your typical politically correct BS.

they were seen as such by many, if you had no hostile intentions, all the worse; because now your just lacking empathy (well not that worse, its the internetz, you dont expect people to show empathy on a regular forum; but this forum proved to be just a little more mature from all the gaming forums ive seen (with the exception of egosoft's forums, thats the most polite gaming forum ive ever seen, flames are simply nonexistant))

You acted little cocky there, but lets not argue about that anymore. I wont get back at that, no matter what kind of BS you come up this time:)


You may not have a need to use more keys than you already are.. but you should ask yourself, are you COMFORTABLE, or just COMPLACIENT?


arent they related? Its not like you can be comfortable without being complacent, and vice-versa? Even if there is a noticable difference, i can hardly think of any example where it would matter even a bit.

You can keep telling people that your way of life is better. Feel free to do so, but when you tell people that their way of life is WORSE, you look like an arrogant d******

You remind me of Jehova's witnesses, barging at my door, trying to convince me that my life is shallow and hollow without THEIR god.

There are far more important issues to deal with when it comes to the most common mistakes made by fps players, than the WSAD vs 'MINE', like setting up a proper sensitivity, or situational awereness in games.

[whiteaden]

I am not going to explain why WSAD is a poor choice of keys, adopted by gamers who are too lazy to learn how to customize controls.

and again you start a post with bashing people...

I want to ask you? WHY?!

it ain't lazyism (made that up) that made me stick with WASD, it's convenience... I've started gaming with games who only had movement, crouch&jump, reload & weaponswitching... they had WASD, as all they needed was Q&E for weapon switching (back in the 2 button mouse days), R for reload, space for jump & shift for sprint (or w/e the default was)

it isn't laziness that keeps the devs from coming up with 'new' standards... it's convenience, people (casual gamers) are familiar with WASD & it's surroundings, (QERFVCXZ[shift][CTRL][TAB][SPACE]) if all necessary buttons can be reached, WHY CHANGE THEM! yes you can customize them.. but you don't need it really.. when I buy a game & play it for the 1st time, I go to controls, swap jump & sprint with my prefered buttons, check out what else there is to use, and PLAY, I don't start with changing WASD & EVERYTHING STANDARD to TFGH or W/E I want... I start with a semi-default (minor adjustments) and go from there.. as they didn't DEFAULT them to the respective locations for giggles, they have that TESTED...


/rant

/sleep

[Basiley]

never use WASD (or similar) layouts, personally.
to be exact, never, from 1987.

[BobMem]

WSAD vs 'MINE'

M, I, N and E are never going to work as keys :D

[Szakalot]

M, I, N and E are never going to work as keys :D

i also thought of that when posting, but found it funny and left it as is:p

[Deeder]

"You can keep telling people that your way of life is better. Feel free to do so, but when you tell people that their way of life is WORSE, you look like an arrogant d******"

Nice, i like the hostility in your posts, let the anger flow through you.



I am not trying to change your life skaz, only your key configuration.

Try not to mix those up.



I hope you get one of those infractions you love so much :D

[Szakalot]

haha, good one

but whats the difference? You 'want to change my key configuration'? Why, thats none of your business:p Its part of my life, as stupid as it may sound.

Feel free to suggest, tell people you consider your configuration better, like you did for the most part; the moment you tell however that THEIR makes them noobs is over the line, for me; so i reacted.

[appleseed]

No one use the statistics argument yet... I'm sad sad sad.... low KD explaining me life is allways cool, sry I had to bring this :P I cant be arsed to use proper argument in ze internet.

Peace
/troll

[Leethal]

Damn ,this was entertaining.

for the OP:

1) Anyone running away from the primary objective.
A soldier carrying an AR or lacerator is usually an enemy in disguise (although I also use the AR when trying to blow up stuff as a soldier. But usually , if you're going soldier, you're going all - out, even because the MP is actually very nice). Same thing for covert ops.
Look out for anyone trying desperately to get behind someone else.
The sprint out-of-breath sound is very easy to spot.
Strogg infiltrators usually have Silent footsteps, so a GDF not making a sound is a dead GDF ;)
Stay alert when someone uses the "enemy disguised as me"
Always stay alert, and only trust someone when they shoot their rifle
In desperate times, shoot for the feet.

2) they've answered this. "-" is stroyent -> health. + is reverse. I think it's kind of counter intuitive, since you usually use it to get more health. There is, anyway, no way to use it in a firefight, since when you fire you can't do stroydown for some seconds...
Use it while doing objectives for a great surprise ;)

3) There isn't actually a problem with the F-key, but it is slower to remove the tool. If you know what you're doing, switch before. If you don't, though, the F key is good for you to learn. I still have the F key bound to F for .. well.. mainly parachuting...


Now for the friendly banter going on.

I actually found the dude supporting deeder funny.. hehe...

In my oppinion, before they switched the default keys from the arrows ( because those were obvious) they probably thought about what you think deeder. middle keyboard? everything is at half-keyboard distance. It's the best place. I understand. The thing is my left pinky isn't that nimble that it can maneuver 6 keys on its own, so the big ctrl, shift, and caps are actually all I use it for. Yeah, I'll stop moving to switch weapons, but I try to plan ahead, reaching for cover before that time comes. Now I could actually agree with you, but from the first line I read in your post, I had the uncontrollable urge not to. It isn't Politically correct BS, it's social interaction.You just don't put out your initial image as a "**** you all, I'm going shoeless". Put the insults in the middle of the post man! save them for a reply! just don't kick off with them... They're so much fun when well used!

In all honesty, the funnest insults are the ones you don't actually say.

I use WASD. I am not a pro, not even close. I could actually count as a noob. But this is all just my opinion.

[Deeder]

btw, if you want tips on how to stay disgusied, without people learning you are enemy, look at what everyone says to look for to spot htem, and dont do them.

when i am disguised, i find the number one best way to fool the enemy, is to walk through their base(or near objectives) backwards, always facing where you (yourr teeam) comes from.

people wiill assuumem yoou are waiting for more enemies and will not pay atttention to who you are.

Also, if your cought with your knife out and enemy is looking you down, waiting for you to do something to proove yuor on their team, find an unconscous team mate, and knife his head in a gibbing motion.

This convinces a good majority of players that you are not disguised ,that you had your knife out to gib.

then you backstab and teabag.

[Szakalot]

those that grow suspicious of you and dont fire a leg-shot-check deserve to be backstabbed:)

[Deeder]

Its not that you thtink im hostle, its that im rude and right at the same time in what i tell you- you have no rebuttle expect to tell me how rude i am.

Well good to know my advice isnt being debating only the methods in which i pass it on.

Sak and I play together often and he understands be better than anyone could from the 10 posts ive made here. I am just telling you guys how to be the best covert/infiltrator, deal with it.

My knowledge and experience with this class comes at a price, I get to call you newbs while i give you tips.

Come play at The Meatlocker 69.28.220.152:27733, its where you can usually find me affter 4pm PST.

come play me fi you thinkn you're better

lets have a knife fight(you can keep your gun out if it makes you feel safe)

If im not the best covert for powning with the AAR(L), then its because I dsiable vehicles (especially MCP, when offcourse, of course) and if not for those than for the fact i keep my radar up 99% of the time.

[Deeder]

those that grow suspicious of you and dont fire a leg-shot-check deserve to be backstabbed:)

I think so too.

[Deeder]

http://stats.enemyterritory.com/leaders/weapons/xp?filter=knife_combined


Im going to call the top 3 stat padders and say im #1.

#3 atleast, llook @ b4rts clan, glitichers andd hackers?

[whiteaden]

tripple posts?

[Deeder]

yes a reply, then a reply to szak, then me bragging my awesomeness

I need a more stimulating job eh?

[whiteaden]

yes a reply, then a reply to szak, then me bragging my awesomeness

I need a more stimulating job eh?

you need to use the edit button... :)

[Deeder]

or maybe they need to make an 'amend' button

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

You had only 1 quote in the 3 messages you posted, so it was not even difficult to keep them together from the first post on.

[Deeder]

Look at the time between the posts and then pucker up your lips in preperaton for my anus, as you kiss my ass.



EDIT (OMG NO WAYZ) It bumps the thread.


...as if this forum is active enough to need to bump stuff

[whiteaden]

Look at the time between the posts and then pucker up your lips in preperaton for my anus, as you kiss my ass.

still, a simple EDIT would've solved that.. all this does is show you that you didn't READ the whole TOPIC before posting... could you please wash your face, my ass is suffering for a severe case of "Fear of Stains"...

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

Look at the time between the posts and then pucker up your lips in preperaton for my anus, as you kiss my ass.



EDIT (OMG NO WAYZ) It bumps the thread.


...as if this forum is active enough to need to bump stuff

Replying to your own posts is not the most convenient tactic to use if you want to make it clearer for others.
If you want to have a discussion with yourself, do it in notepad then.

[Deeder]

no i posted the firrst reply and then my page refreshed showing my szak's new reply, so i quick replied to that. Then i decided to post how i am #4 in leader boards w/ melee weapons (a completely off topic post, i'll admit its offtopic)

but nothing, in any subsequent posting i made after the second reply to szak did i even make reference to anything on topic.

So to tell me i should read the whole topic before replying, well.. that just makes no sense to me. they were all off-topic posts. just like this one is. although now this is a topic all on its own, which means the preceeding posts i made are now on topic.

Please stay on topic for further debates.

[Deeder]

Notepad doesnt have this awesome quakewars theme.

its purdy.

[Leethal]

do you actually HAVE a job?

[Deeder]

Yes, I am a machinist/CNC programmer.
Not that it matters what I do, hell i cant even make fun of you if you're working at macdonalds, because atleast you'd be working.

[whiteaden]

your lack of Sarcasm-Sense Disturbs me...
http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e164/McGoose/9048434.gif

[Deeder]

This isnt even about covert/infiltrators anymore, this is just a hate thread!

[Leethal]

yes it is. The thread is in disguise!

The bad thing about being a bad shot in infiltrator is that ... you can't snipe. So I, as a bad shot that I am, grab an AR / lac and get in disguise. I try to go to the enemy base and screw up their deployables. Bad thing is, I'm so far away from the front line, I never think I'm helping that much.

Lesson, though, always hack the radar. first and foremost.

[Deeder]

i like to EMP every deployable in range then hack the ones i dont want back up. sometimes if they have too many engineers inside i go hack and break all their stuff to draw away from objective. (if its a constructt/disarm objecctive)

[whiteaden]

i like to EMP every deployable in range then hack the ones i dont want back up. sometimes if they have too many engineers inside i go hack and break all their stuff to draw away from objective. (if its a constructt/disarm objecctive)

75% of the times (in a pub) it's smarter to hack a deployable for 60 seconds, instead of disabling it... as there're plenty of Engineers running lose grabbing the XP they get for repairing the turrets... if you disable them, they can't do shit and the opponents will either redeploy it when he respawns or waits it out.. THUS(!) wasting seconds (or minutes if the deployable is in a deserted area) which means your team is +1 for that time being.. :)

if you hack 5 deployables once, (radar (2x), Hammer, Rocket Arty & an AVT/AIT) at least 3 of them will fall back to repair/redeploy their deployable :)

thus your teams will be: (10-1*) VS (10-3)

*: is you

[Leethal]

indeed

minchars

[Basiley]

Covert just need hardworking to be useful for team.
but constant deep riding thru installations, combat formation, make you bored, so switch class or gameplay[to sniping cover or CQB w/SAR]., from time to time.

p.s.
Sarcasm Dense in Suburbs, disturb me little more.

[Deeder]

One of my all time favourite tricks, and ive gotten people banned and kicked for this- is to find an dead engneer, make sure he has respawne already, ,take his corpse, stand @ objective (a destroy objectve) and stand infront of the bomb, making it inaccessable to enemy engineers to diffuse bomb.

Theey dont kill you because they thihnk you are retarded engineer trying to diffuse, when the bomb goes off and they die, they dont always notice you were an enemy, and sometimes they kick the players whos skin you stole.

the first time it happened to me, i laughed so hard i almost ate my joint

[Szakalot]

man people dont notice its the spikes, not the repair drone? shame on them!

[BobMem]

Which button is it to push people, G or F?
You can use that to shove the disarming engineer out of the way, and then stand there blocking them!

[Szakalot]

'f'
10chars

[murka10]

'f'
10chars

No, it's G to push, unlikne W:ET.

[Szakalot]

aahh sry about that, i got use at 'e' and 'enter vehicle' at 'f' (which is 'g' by default) - hence the confusement.

[Deeder]

lool bob yah man thats a great thing to remember too, i think its whatever button you bound use to. but i dont want to open old wounds so thats as far as i'll take tthat ;)

lol..


yah they dont notice its a knife out cuase you switchc betweene gun and kinfe - people will assume you are looking forr tool but keep fummbling the keyboard


pushing people is greeaet, sometimes if i i come up on a sniper on a cliff instead of killing i'll just let the fall do that ;)

[Solumar]

Thank you for the explanations, Deeder! You've stricken our inner sensitivities by referencing idiocy ("nub" or "noob" in the context you presented) or incompetence to explain why we don't use simple logic when binding keys, but at the same time encouraging us to take another look at our binds.

You're very right, Deeder, despite your severe tone. When reading your explanations I can clearly see now that YGHJ is a more versatile setup while WASD is limiting.

I'm a keyboard player and have very supple fingers so that physical attribute might aid me a little, but with my left hand I can hit almost every key on the keyboard while keeping my left index finger on J or my left ring finger on G. It's a little uncomfortable to hit the far keys of course, such as F12, but this is still almost twice as many keys.

There was a time I really did consider going more central with my keys, but I didn't bother. Not lazy, because I had experimented with a load of different setups, sometimes changing it many times a day, until I reach a setup that allows me a bit of play. I just didn't.

I am still toying with the idea and I honestly cannot think of why YGHJ is not a better arrangement. YGHJ might be a superior key setup, just as sure as the sky is blue!

The only reason I don't change my keys is not out of laziness or stubbornness, I just don't care. I don't care about spawn killers, hackers, players who call me a noob in Voice Chat, players who just fly around in the aircraft and crash into things, or players that beat me. If you and I had a skirmish you would probably win. Your aim is probably faster than mine (I drink too much coffee so my aim is rather ridiculous at times), and I agree with your point that you can access the controls with greater ease. But I don't care. Eventually you'll leave the server and some less skilled people will join and I'll just beat them. Pff.

Why go through the trouble of rebinding my keys to something totally different, where I'd actually have to rebind almost every single function, just to beat another player or win the objective? Bah! You win, Deeder, the cup goes to you! ;D

As for the posters addressing your "offensive" tone, I have an "opinion" of my own on that point: Posters can express their ideas how they please. Sure I was a little riled up too when I read that I was a lazy nub, but I know half of that riled-upness came from instantly recognizing that you really are right about the setup, and my WASD is limiting.

It's like 2+2 truly is 4, and it's no one's opinion, it's a fact. Likewise, having more keys at your reach is just obviously better!

No wonder many of us (especially those of us who think ourselves particularly intelligent) get very upset when we look at your explanation and think: "Aw man, it's true!" That anger is anchored in our burning instinctive animal urge to compete and be a better player. A player would read your posts and stew with realization that your setup is obviously better and that they didn't ever think of it themselves.

Even if you intended to rile people up a little by being rude, or if it's really just your style, that's beside the point and at a personal level anyway. Besides, riling up people isn't always bad or malicious, but necessary to make people think, and you succeeded in making me think and I appreciate that.

[Szakalot]

i find it extremely hard not to consider your post to be entirely sarcastic Solumar.
When i read it it looks so much like it, but then i realize that a simple sarcastic response would be wayyy shorter.

that 2+2 analogy is a really bad example. An opinion does not become a fact just because you compare it to math.

yghj gives more keys, but
a) you dont need any more keys. What are you going to bind? vsays? You can throw them away once you use VOIP.
You need how many? 4 for the movement; crouch, jump, sprint, reload, stroyup, stroydown, 4 weapons to select, 2 tools and 2 items, 2 leaning keys, prone, /kill, binoculars, use and get into vehicle; perhaps a stat page (to see the class layout quickly)
You can add binds, toggles and vsays but its safe to assume that less than 4 more keys is enough to achieve maximal efficiency factor when it comes to button pressing. Thats 30 keys.

3 of them on a 5buttons mouse (i assumed fire and alt fire are on the mouse)
WSAD allows for easy access to : 1;2;3;4;5;6;tab;q;w;e;r;t;caps;a;s;d;f;g;lshift;z; x;c;v;b;lctrl;lalt and space. Thats 27keys.
You can also make double binds, as in lshift/lalt+something to virtually double the amount.

Of course, your going to need more keys for spawn/class/team selection binds, but those are not needed to be pressed quickly.


b) time wasted on mastering a more difficult key setup could be spent on getting better at different parts of the game
c) key pressing accuracy and speedis also crucial. I dont know how well Deeder plays, but performing a perfect circle strafe jump might be easier when buttons are big, allowing you more space to hit them.


I also do not agree that people can express their opinions as they please. Some rules of etiquette should apply to keep the debate full of essence, not BS. They usually work to achieve this goal quite efficiently. which is why im such a big forum whore, because a trash talking BS post is so easy to recognize.

Additionally, if what you say is true, than my opinion about his way of expressing his opinion is just as just, and your being hypocritiqal pointing that out TO ME.

[whiteaden]

i find it extremely hard not to consider your post to be entirely sarcastic Solumar.
When i read it it looks so much like it, but then i realize that a simple sarcastic response would be wayyy shorter.

what, you're saying his post wasn't sarcastic?!

but what bout the thick layer of sarcasm on every sentence, word & letter?!

[Solumar]

My post started sarcastic. I should not have mixed my ideas like that in one post. It began that way because in my opinion Deeder is arrogant to a level that makes communication more challenging than it needs to be.

I have to admit though, I spoke WAY too soon, and I didn't think my post through very well at all, unfortunately, although some of it is okay. Personally I have a problem now with what I said about WSAD being limiting. That's actually stupid. I discovered just recently that I can choose to script my keys so I may hold down alt and all the keys change functions. With this arrangement I can do just fine.

I could not lean before. When I heard of Deeder's idea I was biased in my thoughts on the idea because I was possessed with the novelty of actually making things so that I can lean again like I did as a young noob. Before I decided to have those buttons as tools, back in Wolf ET times, to be a better medic. Oh, all the shoot-outs and sniper battles I lost without the precious edge of leaning.

Imagine in real life if you couldn't lean?! Anyway . . .

So I naturally thought: "Man I'm stupid! I'll just move my HAND over!" But my heart be still for there rests in comfortable reaching distance of the left thumb a broad key conveniently named "Alt" who is more than willing to change the role of any of his fellow keys while he is employed, and promises to return their original function once he has been dismissed.

And I thought THAT was great enough news to dig up dead relatives and tell them about it! The fun doesn't stop at the ALT key! You can throw in left SHIFT and do different things while a sprint is in progress!

For example: Weapon2=ALT+SHIFT, Weapon3=SHIFT+MOUSE1, pliers=q, lean left=ALT+Q, etc. And you don't have to worry about accidentally flicking to smg when you're running, arming a mine, and leaning at the same time because that does not ever happen. My tests show good results so far.

Anyway, yes, you do have access to more keys with a central layout but, Skaz, you are absolutely right in saying that you don't NEED all those keys. I'm sorry about how that came across. I said that Deeder's idea was better, period. It isn't. It's simply different. So I have to own up on that one. My brain didn't catch up with my fingers. :/

What I SHOULD have said was: "Yes, the YGHJ arrangement DOES give you more keys to press. Indisputable. But who cares."

And yes that is a much shorter statement, but I obviously had a different opinion at the time. Confusing, eh? Well I'm a confused person. :|

My reply was much more directed at Deeder, although it was at the same time meant for all readers, not just you. The sarcastic tone was for Deeder, but I don't even think he's sensitive enough to feel it.

As I said I appreciate that he offer an alternate method and explain the reasoning. I decided to look past the rudeness while my brain figured out if it made sense. At the time I thought it did, truly. Now, I don't think it's a "bad" layout but just another way of doing it.

Oh, and going between boost and reverse boost in an aircraft with my pinky between two tiny little lettered keys is CRAP! Pinky keys should be big, but maybe my pinky is that of a starved maiden from the middle ages. I really thought I was going to go insane as I kept boosting into the cyclops' face as I shot missiles at him. :/

[Deeder]

Problems arise with many keyboard drivvers and wndows when use a shft+a bind while currently holding down another key.. for example if yoou are runnng and need to take out your pistol you bound to alt+u


what i mean is, if you bound your 2h gun tto alt+t, you cant run at the same time and take your gun out.

atleast thats the problem ive had before.. anyways sim sure there are keys where you wont always be moving when you usse them, but I just never got into the habbit of binding my keys that way..

ive used yghj for all games, deus ex, SiN, elders scroll, systemshock2, quake series, etc, etc,

and the best part about yghj, when going across to other games, is that you'll always have the highest amount of keys available to you.. especially sicne not all games allow you to bind keys to shift+a, or they make it very difficult to do (you hve to go manually edit a config file full of code and crap)
some games are simple in their keys, some have far more.. hell i remember decent: Free Space, had hundreds of binds.. literally.. and a good player would use them all

[Deeder]

i would not havve used 2+2=4 as an example of the accuracy of my statements.

rather that you thinkt he earth is flat , and no matter how many times and how many dfferent ways i prove it to you, you refuse to change becuase youre all too lazy to re-write the textbooks.

[Szakalot]

any example like that can be easily countered with counter examples. the only thing you proved is that yghj gives more keys, which no one argues.

How are you gonna counter the fact that its easier and faster to press big buttons, rather than small buttons with the pinky? Or that, in QW, you dont need any more keys. Give me 5 key binds that are needed to play the game effectively, outside the binds i already listed out.

[Deeder]

its not faster..

bigger buttons would mean the distance to the next nearest button is furtther.


if you have 2 buuttons, 1/2 inch square, then its attleast a 1/4 of an inch movevment distance from the center of one button to the edge of the next, which would be the earliest youcan press it.

if you have 2 buttons 1/4 of an inch than the distance is cut in half, and you reach theh destination quicker.

lke i said before, if you need big buttons, go buy a big keyboard.



what i really love though is how all you do is find holes in arguements, you split hairs to make a trivial point to avoid you having to admit you were wrong the first time.

yghj is better than wsad. no contest. you cant use the excuse "im familiar with wsad, so its easier for me to continue using it" but thats your only excuse. and one hardly worth defending, as all it does is provide evidence of your laziness.

your complaicency becomes your weakness.

come play in a server and stop using words to make your point. I make my point with a knife, and if you can find someone that moves faster than me.. i'll conceed my arguement but until then all you can do is offer heresay.

join a server.. use any gun any class and i'll pown you with a knife.

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

join a server.. use any gun any class and i'll pown you with a knife.

This is funny :)
In fact, I'm actually laughing out loud right now :cool:

[Solumar]

Deeder, after all the explanations, you have to understand most people are going to feel that WASD is fine, while others might think otherwise. And some will be like me who sort of changed minds half-way, but I have a reason for that, as I've posted.

After I tried it out I can see the change isn't worth it BUT I at least understand your perspective.

You won't, for the love of the Makron, beat me JUST BECAUSE you can pop up your command map, reload your weapon, lean, and quick chat "Grrr!" at the same time while I just can't lean at all. :/

Well? What else are you going to do with those buttons? Skazalot made the point first I think and then I went and tested it. I can't really say we're "right" but I don't think he or many of us are convinced it makes a significant difference.

But now you might find it hard to say: "Well yes I guess, but I'm used to YGHJ so I'll keep using it," or something to dismiss the issue from your side because you've gone a bit to far in supporting the inadequacy of WASD, haven't you? Well don't worry about it, because I almost did the same thing and ended up being offensive a little to some people. But we're all human. Like I said, I see your perspective, and I honestly understand why you choose that setup.

I even made the effort and bound my keys to a YGHJ arrangement for an afternoon. Not long, I know, but I expected I'd just play very slowly. I did play slow, and looked like a noob, but all I gained was leaning, and I barely ever lean anyway. I want to be able to lean, though. A player with the ability has an advantage. So I just threw in ALT to let me lean that way, by holding it and pushing other keys.

You did make a point about some games not allowing such binds, and that's a very valid point. Then I'd just have to settle for reaching over for my whatevers and getting fragged if you can get at your whatevers faster than I can since my whatevers can't be next to my finger because all my other whatevers are more important.

But in QW you don't need your hand over there to have an edge. If it's already there, though, then fine. You have a couple more functions you can reach faster and your hand is closer to your crotch when you play, that's about it.

I'm not going to call you a noob or anything either, even though I'm liking this ALT+key arrangement so much that I think it's equal or comparable to YGHJ. It's like how some people put the cream and sugar in first and then pour the coffee while other people do it the other way around. Just a difference in preference.

Nice point about keyboards and their issues with accepting too much key input. I certainly have to take that into account and be sure that I'm fully able to select pliers quickly in such a way that I have no risk of launching a grenade at the repairee, having it ricochet, and blowing myself up. I'll be sure to test my setup and watch for that risk, now that you mention it.

You may actually have the ability to strafe around and do other stuff at the same time a bit better than the WASD user . . . maybe, but NOT significant. You might be able to more quickly shout out "I need a medic!" before you're toasted.

Like I said, I'm wired on coffee all the time so my first shot hits my teammate, the next hits the Titan in the hull and does 1% damage, then the third might pop you in the leg. But I'll just be happy I got that one hit and type VRS as soon as I'm down in hope that I'm forgiven for shooting my guy. Meh.

You can't beat everyone with your Mid-board Wonder Controls! There's someone out there who can only select his medpack by hitting F9 who will still beat you and win the bitch in heat that is your ego.

Good points made by all. Not being sarcastic, I'm quite serious. It's an interesting concept, isn't? When I was playing Wolf ET I thought I was a lord when I realized dropping my leaning meant faster selection of tools. I was reviving twice as many teammates and not dying as much (when I could manage to drop the habit of running for the revive in the middle of enemy fire support).

[Szakalot]

its not faster..

bigger buttons would mean the distance to the next nearest button is furtther.

you dont have a qwerty keyboard? the bigger buttons are on the edge, there are no buttons after them.

what i really love though is how all you do is find holes in arguements, you split hairs to make a trivial point to avoid you having to admit you were wrong the first time.

im not going for the bs talk, sry, your pointless provocation is far too weak:p


yghj is better than wsad. no contest.

why are you discussing then? believe in your ultimate wisdom and throw everything away as garbage... hold on, it looks like thats what you do already, so arent you just ego-stroking?


you cant use the excuse "im familiar with wsad, so its easier for me to continue using it" but thats your only excuse. and one hardly worth defending, as all it does is provide evidence of your laziness.

where did i say so? dont quote things out of existence, please, it will really make the discussion confussing. I said that WSAD is EASIER to learn than YGHJ and the time wasted on a more difficult key setup can be devoted to other tasks.


your complaicency becomes your weakness.

dont know the word, sry; does that mean the readiness to comply?
Well, its difficult to adress that, i dont feel the urge to reply to your image of me.


come play in a server and stop using words to make your point. I make my point with a knife, and if you can find someone that moves faster than me..

i knew only one person moving faster than me. i have serious doubts your speed is even CLOOOOSE to that.

i'll conceed my arguement but until then all you can do is offer heresay.

join a server.. use any gun any class and i'll pown you with a knife.

heresay? you just said you can own people with a knife in a 1v1 against an smg. You know what is the proper reply to that? impossible; you know why? it takes like what, 7-8 hits to take down a player from full health? you cannot deal more damage, except for a backstab; and once i know where you are i will never get you out of my sight.

Now what are you going to do to prevent getting killed before you even get close? Even the best circle strafe jump there is has a speed limit, and once you get in the air your moving in 2d. Your going to stay on the ground? That will be slow

You see, the moment you go knife vs smg the battle has been decided, what will matter is only the skill of the smg player, the best knifer wont do a thing against a certain level of play.

Now i dont say a knife wont win at times, its a good ambush weapon, it can take down an unsuspecting player. But it will only work once against better players, they will become 'suspecting' after that.

But why am i even pointing it out,
i must admit, you look like a simple pubstar wannabe that owned some noobs in ffa and thinks he can take it all. You wanna prove your leetness? gimme a video of you owning a GOOD player in 1v1 consistently. Someone like murka or Tanzver (they are around here on this forums, im sure they will comply to your request)

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

I would looove to see that!
Someone please take the offer xD

[Deeder]

find them i'll 1v1 them

and you stroy down as strogg while running towards them, no ddmg done. take cover in trees, turrets whatever to avoid fire, when they reload, you charge them. and bacckstabs is the way to go..

but i called you out, and you refer me to your friends? I like that.



hurry before wolf is released


and the 'quote' of you saying you know wsad already so why bother switching, was paraphrased... and we're at like 9 pages, and im sorry if this isnt worth mym time to sift through old posts to quote you accurately.


but seriously stop replyniig until youre ready to join a server with me

[whiteaden]

but i called you out, and you refer me to your friends? I like that.

he does that because he's currently unable to play due to him being approximately 1000KM from his gaming rig... and his netbook can't run QW...

[Szakalot]

find them i'll 1v1 them

i wont bother as much, im just hoping someone will take on the offer


but i called you out, and you refer me to your friends? I like that.

as i cant, sry, im pretty sure it would be fun like hell.



hurry before wolf is released

wolf will be a bigger fail than even the grimmiest QW predictions were.


and the 'quote' of you saying you know wsad already so why bother switching, was paraphrased... and we're at like 9 pages, and im sorry if this isnt worth mym time to sift through old posts to quote you accurately.

we are at 4 pages, and im pretty sure i never said 'i use wsad because ive been using it all the time, and not because i find it a suitable key setup.'

even though im pretty sure ive been using wsad for a pretty long time.


but seriously stop replyniig until youre ready to join a server with me

why do you insist on telling me what to do?
im ready anytime, i dont have a medium through which i can do it though.


Light, take on the offer, im confident you will do just as fine, that is N-0 scoere for you:)

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

I might just give it a go ;)

wanna play it on valhalla?

[Deeder]

meh add me to your friends list ingame we'll figure out where you wanna die then :P


The reason why im very adament about my controls is because im sick of watching a medic struggle to find his damn defibs only to die seconds after taking them out

... shouldnt be much more thaan a thought to take out any tool.. if you have to tthink about wher the button is youre setup is faulty.


and skaz, you still dont get what i mean by big button keyboards?
http://www.allegromedical.com/daily-living-aids-c519/bigkeys-lx-keyboard-with-large-1-in-keys-p190142.html?&referral=true

thats what i mean.

so you haveto have ENOURMOUS hands.. but i digress. you wont even come out and play.. so why bother trying to convince you, you dont even have the game installed anymore...

sad really i wanted to see how well you played

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

meh add me to your friends list ingame we'll figure out where you wanna die then :P


kk, I'll have a looksee.

[Szakalot]

if a medic has trouble selecting defibs and targeting you with them effectively its because their noobs, not because they cant press their defibs button due to a bad setup.

that large keyboard is funny, and i have not argued the general equation of 'bigger keys, longer traveling distance, less fast input'; i just referred to that in the context of a standard qwerty keyboard making up for like 99% of all keyboards used.

i dont like to look like im bragging for the heck of it so ill just list out the more 'official' achievements:

3rd place @ quakewarsleague at beta2/demo 6v6 2007
1st place @ gamebite.net 4v4; 2007/2008 mostly a polish cup, but polish scene was looking there as one of the strongest (along perhaps with germany; dont recall much about other countries)
and perhaps the most indicative
2nd place @ clanbase spring 4v4 open cup 2008; losing only to dignitas. we could go on with the game, but we havent seen a lot of competition there, so its pretty much comp retirement after that

as for a latest indication : top 8 at seanza's duel quick cup, which hibernated into a hold unfortunately, so it doesnt really look that good:p

i wont list the countless flying cups ive been in (though i only won one of them)

i guess what im saying is that im pretty much a seasoned player. i pub at like 60% of my comp efficiency, with music in the background and the game running at <30fps; i can easily name a couple dozens of players better than me, but ill get most kill at the end of the round, more often than not.

im not the best, i dont have a problem with getting owned, but i got a lot of gaming knowledge, both intuitive, situational awereness and tactics (i was teamleading the clan i played for almost the entire time of its existence; not that it was really needed, at that lvl of play in 4v4 everyone knew what they were supposed to do on the fly)

[Basiley]

thats why mini-USB-keyboards so important for gaming. limited number of critical keys in tight[easily accessible]package. and more adjustable, than typical[or even many of expensive]ordinary "office" keyboards.

[JoeKR]

U can actually shoot faster than you can reload (wait till next shot) with the sniper rifle, skipping the animation all together.