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View Full Version : My findings by being naughty and unpacking the .pk4's of the Beta may surprise you


o'dium
06-26-2007, 05:44 PM
My findings by being naughty and unpacking the .pk4's of the Beta may surprise you.

Now, usually this is the method I do. I take a peak at other games art, assts and the like and try and see how it was done. For my own game, ET:QW is a big release, simply because the two games are pretty much the same. Note that doesn't mean steal files, that means LOOK.

Now what I've noticed are a few things I don’t think you have taken into account.

1) Normal maps seem to be combined with height maps - For engines like Quake 4 and Doom 3, a few extra images are needed for the process of texturing. Diffuse maps, which are the base colour. Specular maps, which control shine. Local maps which control tangent based lighting information and height maps, an extra effect that combines itself with local mapping, usually for finer detail. Now in ET:QW, every local map seems to be combined with a height map, in other words, they are not two separate pictures, but one. This is GOOD from a download size perspective, as it means you are not releasing as many textures. However, its bad from a visual perspective because local maps lose precision on smaller details. For example, local maps are best at real geometry, that’s why they are made from high poly models on a low poly mesh. Height maps however, are better at smaller, finer detail, such as scratches. From looking at this, I’ve concluded that its “possible” in ET:QW’s Beta, the height maps have been combined with the local maps to save on space, thus lowering the quality in game of some textures. Another drawback of this method is they have lost the height control they once had with the default material set-up. Each height map, has a value which shows how prominent the displacement is. When automatically converted into local/height combination textures, you lose that. In other words, the art may not change for the final game, but the textures may look better.

2) Secondly, Doom 3 and Quake 4 has two methods texture display. One is “low, medium and high” mode, and the other is “Ultra” mode. One set of textures are compressed .dds images, and the other set is .tga. I’ll let you figure out which is which (Its obvious). Now that’s all well and dandy but… ET:QW ONLY contains the compressed textures. Not the actual .tga textures. In other words, every texture in the game is compressed, which will drop the visual quality slightly. Check out Doom 3 on Ultra, then drop it down to high to see what I mean.

3) Lastly, you are playing a single map. A small, test map for your viewing to test stuff out. They wont give you a massive detailed complex map because it’s a beta. They just want to test the basic stuff. So before you say the maps to small, or under detailed, think about it.

Well, in short, what I can conclude from this beta (And my pak sniffing) is that the final game WILL be better looking… But only just. In other words, wit for the real game before you honestly judge the games visuals. It may not be the killer app you were all expecting. It may not be Crysis. But hell, could 90% of you here even run that even if you wanted…?

Keep at it men, see you on the servers.

jonny b
06-26-2007, 05:56 PM
what did you use to unpack the .pk4 files? They're encrypted. (I was under the impressions they coulnd't be unzipped)

mortis
06-26-2007, 05:57 PM
You've been naughty and will only get a lump of coal from Santa Claus this year! ;)

mortis
06-26-2007, 05:59 PM
what did you use to unpack the .pk4 files? They're encrypted. (I was under the impressions they coulnd't be unzipped)

Although the answer to your question might be surprisingly obvious, posting it might get the poster the banstick, so I'd advise caution. The files are encrypted on purpose. It's just my advice, not an order.

guamisc
06-26-2007, 05:59 PM
you can decrypt anything.

jonny b
06-26-2007, 06:04 PM
Although the answer to your question might be surprisingly obvious, posting it might get the poster the banstick, so I'd advise caution. The files are encrypted on purpose. It's just my advice, not an order.

Thats what I was aiming for. While its OK to do things on your own, letting people know you've done it is rather stupid. At least, dont do it on Community forums like this.

MidnightShadows
06-26-2007, 06:10 PM
Great post o'dium! I think it's obvious that the Beta was not going to have all the toys in it... but alot of people seemed to forget that aspect.

As for unpacking encrypted .pk4 files... if you look in the right places on the net... it's easy to find out how.

Can't wait to see what the full game (or even the demo is like!)

RR2DO2
06-26-2007, 06:10 PM
Doom 3 and Quake 4 convert heightmaps to normal maps and blend them with the full normal map before uploading them to the video card. This is all done in the images programs on load. When you use DDS files this is pre-calculated (Why not? The calculation is static.) Your understanding of the tech isn't quite correct there.

Also, the main reason for a quality drop in D3 from enabling compressed textures is that the normal maps get compressed. We re-normalise the normals in the shader afterwards (D3 didn't do this due to performance reasons on the lower end) which gets rid of pretty much all obviously visible artefacts.

Sublim3
06-26-2007, 06:11 PM
Nice research dude.

and thanks for the clearification RR2DO2 ;)

i use pakscape.

jonny b
06-26-2007, 06:13 PM
sorry, i should have given O'd some credit for what it's worth. It really was a decent post :)

o'dium
06-26-2007, 06:43 PM
Doom 3 and Quake 4 convert heightmaps to normal maps and blend them with the full normal map before uploading them to the video card. This is all done in the images programs on load. When you use DDS files this is pre-calculated (Why not? The calculation is static.) Your understanding of the tech isn't quite correct there.

Also, the main reason for a quality drop in D3 from enabling compressed textures is that the normal maps get compressed. We re-normalise the normals in the shader afterwards (D3 didn't do this due to performance reasons on the lower end) which gets rid of pretty much all obviously visible artefacts.

Hmmm... I never thought about this... Is this why the local maps are perhaps a tad brighter than average normal maps? I was thinking why they were that way myself, thought it had more to do with you not wanting people to rip them. Thanks for the post.

MoP
06-26-2007, 06:55 PM
ETQW's local maps are not brighter than any other tangent-space maps :)
It wouldn't make sense, since a brighter map would imply an average normal direction of something other than straight forward.

o'dium
06-26-2007, 07:00 PM
ETQW's local maps are not brighter than any other tangent-space maps :)
It wouldn't make sense, since a brighter map would imply an average normal direction of something other than straight forward.

Hmm... They are here... Its possibly my naughty tool is also a dumb tool, or photoshop is needing a re-install...? Strange either way..

EDIT: It looks like my photoshop .DDS plug in is being friendly again, nm :p

kat
07-15-2007, 02:52 PM
.....However, its bad from a visual perspective because local maps lose precision on smaller details.All purely relative as it assumes you know what the uber uncompressed image looks like.. for all you know it's exactly the same... they *are* quite clever and talented people a SD you know ;)
2)... which will drop the visual quality slightly. Check out Doom 3 on Ultra, then drop it down to high to see what I mean.See "1" above. You only know the difference in D3 becasue you have both TGA and DDS. There are plenty of games out there that use DDS to good effect.

One thing you're also over looking is SD have implimented 'detail' texturing which mean surfaces don't pixelate up close, so again, you don't necessarily need uber high res images.

mf-
07-15-2007, 10:46 PM
This topic has gone way over my head ha hah

darthmob
07-16-2007, 01:04 PM
This topic has gone way over my head ha hah
oh, and I thought I would be the only one.

MWLL|Criminal
07-16-2007, 01:57 PM
All purely relative as it assumes you know what the uber uncompressed image looks like.. for all you know it's exactly the same... they *are* quite clever and talented people a SD you know ;)
See "1" above. You only know the difference in D3 becasue you have both TGA and DDS. There are plenty of games out there that use DDS to good effect.

One thing you're also over looking is SD have implimented 'detail' texturing which mean surfaces don't pixelate up close, so again, you don't necessarily need uber high res images.

This technique essentially has allowed Splash Damage to place all of the player model UV's onto a single 2048X2048 making it far more efficient in the low end of the renderer to mount the single sheet (well 3 actually if you include the norms and specs) onto essentially 12 of the same models. 12 models all accessing the same UV coordinates is far more effective than having 5 seperate texture sheets for each class....or 3 per model having a total of 15 maps loaded vs. 3. Keep in mind though that the view_ model has its own map as does the face and helmet.

dONKEY
07-23-2007, 01:33 PM
On the subject of detail textures....is this being done via mip levels?

MoP
07-23-2007, 02:06 PM
Detail textures are a completely separate thing from the mip levels, they are smaller tiling textures blended over the top of the main texture.

dONKEY
07-23-2007, 03:13 PM
That's interesting, thank you.

Finko
07-23-2007, 06:13 PM
This topic has gone way over my head ha hah

I've been doing level design since Doom II and this stuff still gives me headaches when I read it. :rolleyes: