About PunkBuster running as a service and other short stories

[TERATOGEN]

My problem with this game is the Punkbuster.

I don't like cheaters but I don't like my privacy being invaded even more. Read their new PBEULA.txt. They can look anywhere in your PC and send back to their servers anything they want. This time they simply have gone too far with this. There are lots of private things stored on my PC: addresses, back accounts, credit card numbers, phone numbers and bunch of other stuff. Well they cover their asses with EULA and then do whatever they want. Would you like to come in into my house and go through my things saying "We are allowed to do so because you bought a game that uses PB and you agreed to the EULA and after all if you are an honest guy then you have nothing to hide?" I'm sorry the answer is "No, you can not!" This is the worst case of invasion of privacy and abuse of power I have ever seen or heard of.

I also don't like them running their services 24/7 and wasting my system recourses. They don't feel like informing you about it so they just install their program, set it to run automatically every time you start your PC and then you're sitting there and wondering how come I spent all this money for this top of the line PC but it runs so slow. Often the answer is people like those behind the PB installing bunch of crap on your PC without informing you about it and then running it all the time. Nowadays there are so many of these type of insolent fellows on the internet that often more than a half of your system resources are being used by their spying programs and you don't even know about it.

On top of that their software is often flawed and can open your PC to anybody on the internet. Do you think they take responsibility for that? Nope, their software is optional so it's your own problem if your PC is being opened to the whole wide world because of them. They can patch it later but they do not guarantee anything.

PB can also ban you from the game and they don't have to give you any kind of explanation they can just do so and there's nothing you can do about it. I personally have never been banned by PB but some of my friends have been.

Even after uninstall QW:ET the PB remains on your system and runs every time you start your PC. Look in the services PnkBstrA.exe and PnkBstrB.exe they stay there and they start automatically. This is 24/7 spy ware that is going to reside on your PC sending anything they want back to them even if you uninstall all games that support PB.

Here's how to remove this crap:
Download the following program http://www.evenbalance.com/downloads/pbsvc/pbsvc.exe
Open the program above and click the "Uninstall" button. This will remove the PnkBstrA.exe and PnkBstrB.exe services.
Some may need to remove the registry entries.
Back up your current registry just in case then go to START, RUN, type regedit and search for these: PnkBstrA, PnkBstrB and PnkBstrK, just right click on the folder when you find it and delete it.
Also in C:\windows\system32\drivers is PnkBstrK.sys that is safe to delete.

I will not install any games that come with this crap ever on my PC again! Unless there are significant changes in the way they implement it.

[Axz]

You must buy x360 if you want play without any anticheat programs.

bye bye

[reyalp]

Don't forget to pass your beta key on to one of the many people who would like a chance to test.

[sponge]

Indeed, you'll be better off with an XB360, because with Vista's enhanced security model, this is the "right" way to implement programs which need Administrator privileges from a LUA, and many other apps will likely be following this route in the future.

I'll completely ignore your claims of spyware since I know you don't have any concrete evidence of data it is sending out, and you are clearly talking out of your ass with limited knowledge of how things work.

[RaVE]

You won't be playing a lot of games in the future, then. You might want to uninstall a lot of EA's online games, such as BF2 and 2142 if you've got them, seeing as how they use punkbuster too. Punkbuster sucks but it's not impossible to deactivate it whenever you're not in game. Just shut the service down and viola!

[romeo]

i see you r not the smartest apple on the tree and you dont know the first thing about punkbuster. i wont miss you from the battlefiled because i hate the kind of people who can only whine. anyway you have any proof of ur claims? i've been using pb in lots of games for years now, but i think it is the first time you encountered it, wonder which of us has more experience with it.

[Bhopx]

i dont think that punkbuster adds itself to your startup list, because i do not see it on mine. i did notice that it was running on my processes list even though i just closed quake wars. i dont like it either, but it seems that it's necessary to play hacker-free games. i dont have any important information stored on my computer anyway.

and to the poster above me, yes he is right that punkbuster is practically spyware, from the punkbuster EULA:

"Licensee further acknowledges and accepts that PunkBuster software may be considered invasive. Licensee understands that PunkBuster software inspects and reports information about the computer on which it is installed to other connected computers and Licensee agrees to allow PunkBuster software to inspect and report such information about the computer on which Licensee installs PunkBuster software. Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, Licensee's Internet Protocol Address, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed. "

translation: installing punkbuster means we can do whatever we want with what we find on your computer.

[crowbar]

PM me your key please........ I have someone who is not worried about PB.

[zig-zag]

You do realize some servers will opt out of running PB once the game is out, hence why it asks if you want to install it in the first place. BTW, it does add itself to startup, end process and reboot, and boom it's back. It uses 4MB of ram and 0% cpu, if your new state of the art PC can't handle that...

[Bhopx]

i dont understand why something like that should be running on startup. is it maintaining a connection with some punkbuster server even when you arent playing a game? if so that bothers me.

[zig-zag]

i dont understand why something like that should be running on startup. is it maintaining a connection with some punkbuster server even when you arent playing a game? if so that bothers me.
No, and your task manager will show 0% network utilization. It works that way because of Vista security.

[Zeldor]

Yeah, Vista messed with many copy protections. And as always those copy protections hurt legal copies mainly. But it is online game so it needs one. I trust SD, but I wouldn't trust anything from EA.

[sponge]

Yeah, Vista messed with many copy protections. And as always those copy protections hurt legal copies mainly. But it is online game so it needs one. I trust SD, but I wouldn't trust anything from EA.

That has absolutely 0 to do with the reason why they did this. OSes with real multi-user security models like OS X, Linux, and Unix, have the same methodologies, that Windows is catching on to with Vista.

[Iori]

all this because some people out there are unts and write hax and viruses... bastards!

[ImDatKiLLaBeHinDYoU]

Yeah, Vista messed with many copy protections. And as always those copy protections hurt legal copies mainly. But it is online game so it needs one. I trust SD, but I wouldn't trust anything from EA.

PunkBuster is not going to do any damage to your computer or it will spy on your computer to know all your personal files, etc.. I've been playing games that require PunkBuster for a long time and guess what? It didn't do sh!t. PunkBuster only searches for hacks on your pc and detect em. Otherwise punkbuster company would be in trouble right now. Get your thoughts str8

[Nappy]

I love how people complain but never have a better suggestion. Can you suggest an effective alternative? No?

Bye!!!!

[Alera]

I believe the reason the process is there is due to an issue that cropped up a while ago with W:ET. Something to do with having to be logged on as admin to play on Punkbuster games? Can't remember...But anyhow. Punkbuster has been scanning your memory and your harddrive for ages, only now do you worry? Sheesh. It's like with Blizzards EULA, they can ban you for any reason they want but very rarely does it occur...

PB pretty much just scans your HDD for cheats. I highly doubt it's going to steal your personal information to earn a quick buck...

[gSTRUCTOR]

What a bunch of mindless fanboys, this guy posts a well written, fact based argument and all you can do is look like a SD muppet? bah muppets are smarter tbh.

I was surprised to not have feedback from the community when asking for the unranked server files so anyone can have a server, buy if you act like this with something much more serious, its all downhill from now i guess.

One thing is clear, PB doesnt keep crackers out(ffs dont use the term hacker), apart from that PB consumes resources and is know to cause lag, now on top of that they make you agree that all your data are belong to them, whats the part you cant get? youre all getting used to spend megabucks in hardware while youre forgetting to defend your rights, bots.

We need cheating countermeasures? yes. PB is the solution? no. Cant be fixed for quakewars? ok can live with it. Should we, as gamers, ask for a better solution? YES! SI! OUI! DOMO ARIGATO GOZAIMASHITA!

[Brinkman]

What a bunch of mindless fanboys, this guy posts a well written, fact based argument and all you can do is look like a SD muppet? bah muppets are smarter tbh.
does your ass get chapped riding his nuts all day and night?

well written? bahhahaha yes all he does is whine whine whine with nothing else to add to these "issues" he's having with the game.. nothing constructive.. just whaaaaaaaaaaaaa'ing

there's no reason to make this thread other than for attention :rolleyes:

[reyalp]

PB pretty much just scans your HDD for cheats. I highly doubt it's going to steal your personal information to earn a quick buck...
PB does not, and never has done general scans of your HD. Things like MD5 tool checks at files inside the game directory, but these configured by the server admin rather than PB.

[Archange1]

I agree that PB shouldnt be running in the BG all the time, and someone seriously should chase Even Balance up with their EULA (if at least to make it say its not going to use any personally-identifiable information), but id have thought have really sensitive stuff -like CC numbers, bank account numbers, etc- on your PC wasnt a good idea to begin with...

If PB was doing something really nasty on your PC in terms of privacy invasion, they would have been found out already, or are just shooting themselves in the foot bigtime.
Further more, game dev companies wouldnt go with Even Balance if they knew they were breaching privacy laws.

[Zeldor]

ImDatKiLLaBeHinDYoU:

I am FOR things like PB because I have seen the difference between servers with PB and without on W:ET. But it seems that there are always some problems with it. I couldn't play W:ET for very long time because there was some conflict between PB and my ATI card. But it isn't the topic to discuss about it. Just getting frustrated because game is almost unplayable due to tremendous lag :(

[b0rsuk]

Another person can't understand the difference between beta and demo. It doesn't even matter that there will probably be servers with PB off. I won't miss you, because even without PB you'd find something to bitch about.

As for ATI, it shouldn't be used as a yardstick for anything. Lots and lots of people complain about ATI drivers. It has been this way for years and doesn't seem to be getting better.

[un1zo.]

My problem with this game is the Punkbuster.

I don't like cheaters but I don't like my privacy being invaded even more. Read their new PBEULA.txt. They can look anywhere in your PC and send back to their servers anything they want. This time they simply have gone too far with this. There are lots of private things stored on my PC: addresses, back accounts, credit card numbers, phone numbers and bunch of other stuff.

Punkbuster have been doing that for years.

[mf-]

Does not worry me, this is my gaming computer. Got nothing on hear anyone could steal except my precious myspace account.

[Havok13888]

wait a minute if PB is doing this is VAC also doin the same thing??

i dont get it y do they need anti cheats anyways i been seeing loads of players on bf2 and 2142 using aimbot and getting pistol kills like a sniper shot halfway across the map or getting like 400 knife kills i mean wot bullshit. Even with PB.
I think VAC is much better and safer i haven't seen as many cheaters in CS or other steam games

[imawesome]

I don't know what crack you guys are smoking but the OP has a point. According to their EULA (End User License Agreement) they can take any information from your computer and do what they want with it. This means that they can take credit card information, e-mail addresses, real addresses, phone numbers, internet history, cookie data, etc. and sell it to some third party company, or just use the information themselves for whatever they want.

The funny part is, it would be perfectly legal for them to do so. But, Splash Damage didn't write the EULA, Evenbalance did. So, to blame Splash Damage is silly but it doesn't change his point. On XP right now, pnkbstra.exe has been running for well over 24 hours since the last time I played and could be doing anything. Anyone claiming it uses so little processing power and RAM, thus it is insignificant has clearly never heard of a virus.

[Sainted]

There will be hundreds of servers running without punkbuster (which will be filled with hackers), so you can play the game even without installing this scary thing. Yet again, you can better quit gaming, every good game has anti-cheat and they all do the same.

[reyalp]

The funny part is, it would be perfectly legal for them to do so.
Even if you correctly interpreted the EULA (which IMO you have not), this isn't necessarily true. Various legal obligations cannot be negated by a simple EULA.

It would also contradict evenbalances written privacy policy http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=privacy.php

[paZifist]

i would have no probs with PB if it would stop FREAKIN KICKIN MEE!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

[siiix]

here the solution for your problem with PB :

let the punkbuster services start (so DO NOT remove it in msconfig)

then you have to create 2 bat files

file #1
------------------------------
Net Stop PnkBstrA
Net Stop PnkBstrB
------------------------------
i called file #1 start.bat

run this file automatically at end of windows boot (so put it in startup folder in the start menu)

this will end the 2 services

file #2
-----------------------------
@echo off
Net Start PnkBstrA
Net Start PnkBstrB

"%UserProfile%\Desktop\Enemy Territory - QUAKE Wars(TM) Beta.lnk"

PAUSE

Net Stop PnkBstrA
Net Stop PnkBstrB
------------------------------
this bat file will run your shortcut (with all setting you might have) after restarting PB services

after you exit the game it will end the pb services for you (by pressing space after exit)

of course you have to create a shortcut for every PB enabled game

or you simple create this (in stead of #2) universal for all PB games:
-----------------------------
@echo off
Net Start PnkBstrA
Net Start PnkBstrB

PAUSE

Net Stop PnkBstrA
Net Stop PnkBstrB
------------------------------
this will start PB services and wait of [space bar]
you start your game like usually you do
after closing game ... press [space] to end PB services

[siiix]

i dont think that punkbuster adds itself to your startup list, because i do not see it on mine.

it SUPPOSED to be only added to startup of computers that are NOT directly connected to the internet and don't have a firewall running (or certain ports are open)

what this mean that IF you connect your PC strait to your DSL/CABLE modem and you have an IP from your provider (NOT 192.168.x.x or similar, so NO router) you MIGHT Get lucky and you wont have that added to your startup

now i'm fairly good with this stuff
my PC is on a DMZ i do not have any firewall or virus stuff or anything else (not even installed) that would slow down/limit my connection BUT i do have to use a router, and i still have the lame PB services at my startup

(DMZ (Demilitarized Zone) is used to allow a single computer on the LAN to be exposed to the Internet.)

the reason this is like this because the programmers at PB are lame and untalented, honestly i would not call someone a programmer who is responsible for this mess, i of course contacted PB about this issue, if i would be responsible who is working at PB some people would lose they job now because if a programmer cant do such simple basic thing right - how would he come up against hackers

[jado316]

Could ya please PM me ya key? If you want I have a key for some sort of racing game you can have.

[SuicideRUN]

what have you got on your computer that your scared of others seeing? must be some nasty kiddy porn or something :)

I was thinking that too, he's might have some al-qaeda plans. :D

[ChrisJSY]

You've got to be an idiot to leave credit card details on your PC and not know how to protect it.

[siiix]

there is an other BETTER solution then buying a ps3 or a lame xbox360

just build a 2nd PC only for gaming, so it wont mater if they have unnecessarily services or they spy on your computer as it has nothing else on it then the games

if you build it your self it wont even cost a lot more then a console (you can use the same keyboard/mouse/monitor and just with SWITCH BOX (about $5 NEW on ebay)

before i came up with the batch file solution i was seriously considering the 2nd pc solution, think about it the "work pc" wont need a top of the line video card nor any amassing CPU to run windows, office and internet

[AlexTrp]

Wait wtf!!! punkbuster has no Legal right to get your data wtf im uninstalling this crap too also my BF2142 **** pc games im sticking to my xbox 360

**** i hope PunkBuster gets sued for doing this

[jado316]

Well, could you please PM me your beta key, Alex (not your account delete the account give me the key)? :)

[UltraMagnus]

Nobody cares that X Y or Z person is quitting, but I can't miss an opportunity to say PUNKBUSTER SUCKS. I'd rather have to votekick out cheaters personally than have that dumb app lagging me and kicking people. Save harsh countermeasures like that for serious competition.

CHOOSE ONE:
----------------------
AIDS :rolleyes: CANCER

[p3RF]

CHOOSE ONE:
----------------------
AIDS :rolleyes: CANCER

i take the :rolleyes:

[AlexTrp]

Wait i uninstalled and still have the following ****ing files:

PNKBSTRA.EXE-10E31BEE.pf
PNKBSTRB.EXE-0280F7BD.pf

Both in C:\WINDOWS\Prefetch

WTF? i smell a Law Suit

[Morgenstern]

My problem with this game is the Punkbuster.

I don't like cheaters but I don't like my privacy being invaded even more. Read their new PBEULA.txt. They can look anywhere in your PC and send back to their servers anything they want. This time they simply have gone too far with this. There are lots of private things stored on my PC: addresses, back accounts, credit card numbers, phone numbers and bunch of other stuff. Well they cover their asses with EULA and then do whatever they want. Would you like to come in into my house and go through my things saying "We are allowed to do so because you bought a game that uses PB and you agreed to the EULA and after all if you are an honest guy then you have nothing to hide?" I'm sorry the answer is "No, you can not!" This is the worst case of invasion of privacy and abuse of power I have ever seen or heard of.

I also don't like them running their services 24/7 and wasting my system recourses. They don't feel like informing you about it so they just install their program, set it to run automatically every time you start your PC and then you're sitting there and wondering how come I spent all this money for this top of the line PC but it runs so slow. Often the answer is people like those behind the PB installing bunch of crap on your PC without informing you about it and then running it all the time. Nowadays there are so many of these type of insolent fellows on the internet that often more than a half of your system resources are being used by their spying programs and you don't even know about it.

On top of that their software is often flawed and can open your PC to anybody on the internet. Do you think they take responsibility for that? Nope, their software is optional so it's your own problem if your PC is being opened to the whole wide world because of them. They can patch it later but they do not guarantee anything.

PB can also ban you from the game and they don't have to give you any kind of explanation they can just do so and there's nothing you can do about it. I personally have never been banned by PB but some of my friends have been.

Even after uninstall QW:ET the PB remains on your system and runs every time you start your PC. Look in the services PnkBstrA.exe and PnkBstrB.exe they stay there and they start automatically. This is 24/7 spy ware that is going to reside on your PC sending anything they want back to them even if you uninstall all games that support PB.

Here's how to remove this crap:
Download the following program http://www.evenbalance.com/downloads/pbsvc/pbsvc.exe
Open the program above and click the "Uninstall" button. This will remove the PnkBstrA.exe and PnkBstrB.exe services.
Some may need to remove the registry entries.
Back up your current registry just in case then go to START, RUN, type regedit and search for these: PnkBstrA, PnkBstrB and PnkBstrK, just right click on the folder when you find it and delete it.
Also in C:\windows\system32\drivers is PnkBstrK.sys that is safe to delete.

I will not install any games that come with this crap ever on my PC again! Unless there are significant changes in the way they implement it.
don't panic. what do you think evenbalance wanna spy out?
that pb servises are a joke against all that other crappy windows software or at least what happens when you click links in websites...
just download and install this http://free-spyware-scanner.softonic.de and run it ;)
and think about how funny online gaming would be without anticheat tools...

[danteuk]

All this about PB's EULA. I remember when HL2 came out. I hated ( and still do ) steam and it's EULA. I've not run Steam since completing HL2, except onces to have a look at the Lost Coast map.

Basically if read and took seriously most of these EULA you'd never install any software on your machine.
Most of them are NOT legally binding because they contradict common law and your basic rights.

It's not the fact the PB would scan your hard disk and transfer any data it likes back to use in anyway they see fit. It's the fact that they or someone in their employ MIGHT if they wanted to because they have the technology and they have your trust. They have a service running in background 24/7 by default ( I know why but it should be stopped by default and start automatically by ET.exe or any other PB enabled game and stopped when you exit the game ) that we have to trust to play games without cheating A*&^holes ( if PB actually worked that is ).

I would never store bank or credit card details on any machine connected to the internet, but then I trust no one because I know how easy it is to gain remote access to PC and do whatever you like. ( not saying I'm a hacking, just I have written programs in the distant past many would view as hacking tools, I've never released of these programs into the wild, nor would I. Mainly just proof of concepts, that worked.)

[siiix]

CHOOSE ONE:
----------------------
AIDS :rolleyes: CANCER
hmmm,
assuming both are identical in treatment or possibility of cure or lack of
at least you had some fun getting the AIDS :D

[Punisher|ITA]

i dont think that punkbuster adds itself to your startup list, because i do not see it on mine. i did notice that it was running on my processes list even though i just closed quake wars. i dont like it either, but it seems that it's necessary to play hacker-free games. i dont have any important information stored on my computer anyway.

and to the poster above me, yes he is right that punkbuster is practically spyware, from the punkbuster EULA:

"Licensee further acknowledges and accepts that PunkBuster software may be considered invasive. Licensee understands that PunkBuster software inspects and reports information about the computer on which it is installed to other connected computers and Licensee agrees to allow PunkBuster software to inspect and report such information about the computer on which Licensee installs PunkBuster software. Licensee understands and agrees that the information that may be inspected and reported by PunkBuster software includes, but is not limited to, Licensee's Internet Protocol Address, devices and any files residing on the hard-drive and in the memory of the computer on which PunkBuster software is installed. "

translation: installing punkbuster means we can do whatever we want with what we find on your computer.


Yeah man it does... look at Control Panel --> Administration Instruments --> Services.

I think thread started in this is completely right.

[Punisher|ITA]

All this about PB's EULA. I remember when HL2 came out. I hated ( and still do ) steam and it's EULA. I've not run Steam since completing HL2, except onces to have a look at the Lost Coast map.

Basically if read and took seriously most of these EULA you'd never install any software on your machine.
Most of them are NOT legally binding because they contradict common law and your basic rights.

It's not the fact the PB would scan your hard disk and transfer any data it likes back to use in anyway they see fit. It's the fact that they or someone in their employ MIGHT if they wanted to because they have the technology and they have your trust. They have a service running in background 24/7 by default ( I know why but it should be stopped by default and start automatically by ET.exe or any other PB enabled game and stopped when you exit the game ) that we have to trust to play games without cheating A*&^holes ( if PB actually worked that is ).

I would never store bank or credit card details on any machine connected to the internet, but then I trust no one because I know how easy it is to gain remote access to PC and do whatever you like. ( not saying I'm a hacking, just I have written programs in the distant past many would view as hacking tools, I've never released of these programs into the wild, nor would I. Mainly just proof of concepts, that worked.)

I totally agree with you man.

[jado316]

So, are there still any keys up for grabs here??

[AlexTrp]

Thxn for the info TERATOGEN i have spared this to "PunkBuster" website and "PunkBustered" forum.

[Punisher|ITA]

TERATOGEN, I really suggest you to create a petition against PunkBuster... describe clearly your reason and of course you could also show your will in favour of an OPEN-SOURCE ANTI-CHEAT SOFTWARE, so we could really know for what it can actually be used.

I would, of course, sign it and spread.

[jurrieb]

pnkbstra.exe ads itself to your startup list i have it to:cool:
but they can see whatever i do on my pc its not that they are the goverment :p
good luck with finding a good game without punkbuster:D :oppressor:

[Punisher|ITA]

good luck with finding a good game without punkbuster:D :oppressor:

This is not the point man, the point is that we can have good games, WITHOUT CHEATERS, without evenbalance people potentially seeing what we have on our HD ;).

[gloowa]

This is not the point man, the point is that we can have good games, WITHOUT CHEATERS, without evenbalance people potentially seeing what we have on our HD ;).

no. we cannot.

you assume ppl are not jerks and assholes. thay are.
if you know better option than PB let us know.

[murka10]

is there really a need for these threads, you are just whining and thinking that somebody likes to see others whine, i never knew that such paranoid people even play PC games.
do whatever you like, nobody cares, but don't distribute this bad mood, you are just showing how retarded you are. also how do you have bank accounts and credit card numbers in your PC? arent they secured in a net page or sth or have you just written down a file called mypersonals.txt and in it such important things?

[Morgenstern]

no1 is forced to install/use pb and it's simple to uninstall. but if you uninstall it, you can only play pb-disabled servers...

[Haklin]

It's not the fact the PB would scan your hard disk and transfer any data it likes back to use in anyway they see fit. It's the fact that they or someone in their employ MIGHT if they wanted to because they have the technology and they have your trust. They have a service running in background 24/7 by default ( I know why but it should be stopped by default and start automatically by ET.exe or any other PB enabled game and stopped when you exit the game ) that we have to trust to play games without cheating A*&^holes ( if PB actually worked that is ).


Totally agree with this point.

[RR2DO2]

The game can't start or stop the service because it doesn't have the rights to. The game runs in a limited user environment, starting/stopping a service requires admin rights. There are enough articles you can find online that will explain why this is a bad idea.

[Haklin]

I understand that it doesn't have the rights to....if only I could give it those rights. Force shutting it down is a pain. I remember years ago when you manually started up PB before joining a game...then after the game you could simply shut PB down.

Don't go getting cranky because users are annoyed a service is running when in reality if all things were done right their wouldn't be a need to have pnkbstra.exe running 24/7. Thanks.

[RR2DO2]

You can give the user the rights, by running as a user with admin rights. Which you don't want, as that leaves your system very vulnerable.

Giving a restricted user rights to start a service means that a restricted user could run code at system level. Can you say huge gaping security hole?

Running PunkBuster as a service is the right thing to do, for the same reason a lot of processes on your computer are already running as a service (for example, your dns lookup functionality is done through a service which is always running, even if you only use it now and then).

Also people, use the search. I've explained this several times now on these forums.

[Haklin]

Thanks for the explanation:)
Hrmm so pnkbstra.exe being loaded as a SYSTEM process if fundamentally safer for me?..

[sponge]

pbA.exe is fundamentally safer, and you can expect as more programs become Vista compatible, but still require administrator rights, this is the method they will take.

[RR2DO2]

PunkBuster has to function with certain high level rights either way, due to the checks it needs to do. If it wouldn't have these rights, certain cheats could get around it by running as a non-restricted process themselves and fooling the PB process.

So yes, if you interpret 'safer' as a 'more cheat free environment to play in', running PB as a service is 'fundamentally safer'.

[siiix]

who in the world runs a gaming rig with not being on an admin account ?

are there any 6 year olds playing here or what ?

who even have a system with a non admin user even added to the user list ?

[Haklin]

who in the world runs a gaming rig with not being on an admin account ?

are there any 6 year olds playing here or what ?

who even have a system with a non admin user even added to the user list ?

True. I've always run my system on an admin account. Security on computers and the paranoia that PB has caused is no real surprise.

Anyway...after all that ...i might go beta test a little:)

[Krillin]

You can give the user the rights, by running as a user with admin rights. Which you don't want, as that leaves your system very vulnerable.

Giving a restricted user rights to start a service means that a restricted user could run code at system level. Can you say huge gaping security hole?

Running PunkBuster as a service is the right thing to do, for the same reason a lot of processes on your computer are already running as a service (for example, your dns lookup functionality is done through a service which is always running, even if you only use it now and then).

Also people, use the search. I've explained this several times now on these forums.

RR2,

This is all news to me (39 yo non-IT professional). Do you know a good link to describe the admin/non-admin issues with services and protecting your comp? Sounds like I might be better off surfing, banking, and gaming on a non-Admin login.

[RR2DO2]

Krillin, don't have any links handy. But say you are running as a restricted user and for example visit a malicious website where you end up downloading a bit of dodgy software. And *oops* you run it. Now unless this software exploits a security hole in the OS, as a restricted user it won't be able to do much to the core of the system. Sure it can run and do something to that user account, but it won't be able to hide, take over a virus scanner, install a rootkit or anything like that.

Now if you would be running as an administrator, it would have free reign.

siiix: every gamer should run as a restricted reason, there shouldn't be any reason not to. If some software prevents you from running in a restricted environment, I would contact the developers of said software and get them to fix the problems.

[gloowa]

every gamer should run as a restricted reason, there shouldn't be any reason not to. If some software prevents you from running in a restricted environment, I would contact the developers of said software and get them to fix the problems.

tottaly true. but as I am lazy by nature i play on admin account (i mess alot with my comp, also do some programming, so constant logout/logins would have me raged. still RR2DO2 is (like always) right :) )

[Glavin]

wow! I guess I should switch over to a non-admin account then! haha!

-The Glavin

[b0rsuk]

who in the world runs a gaming rig with not being on an admin account ?


Everyone with basic knowledge of IT and security.
Everyone who plays on Linux, including me. One of major reasons there are no virues* for Linux is that everyone uses restricted account by default. Even if you ran some stupid piece of code it could only affect your data, not the system.



* there have been proof-of-concept viruses, sure. They are rare enough no one remembers their names.

[SpankD]

This has me wanting the Linux binary now even more then ever lol

[organon]

This has me wanting the Linux binary now even more then ever lol

Or OS X version. No pb needed or available there.

Which makes me wonder ... will Linux and OS X clients only be able to connect to servers without pb?

How was it in Q4?

[ImoldGreggg!]

TERATOGEN, I really suggest you to create a petition against PunkBuster... describe clearly your reason and of course you could also show your will in favour of an OPEN-SOURCE ANTI-CHEAT SOFTWARE, so we could really know for what it can actually be used.

I would, of course, sign it and spread.

An open source anti cheat program? I think crackers/hackers, whatever you want to call them would like that very much. They will definately sign.

[SkunK]

I've yet to find one single game that doesn't require admin privileges one way or the other mainly because of Microsoft OS "strategy" but also because of game developers' laziness.

On install:

Most games' installer will force installation in the "Program Files" directory. A normal user doesn't have write access to that directory by default;

Many games' installer will want to write shit in the HKLM key of the registry. Again, a normal user doesn't have write access to that part of the registry by default;

Some games' installer will want to write files in %SYSTEMROOT% (mainly dlls which is incomprehensible since a dll could reside within the same directory as the executable binary). And again, a normal user doesn't have write access to that directory by default.

On configuration:

Up to now, most games have been writing their configuration files into their main directory (which is in "Program Files"). In this case, the only solution is for an admin to give write access for the game's main directory to a normal user;

The new trend is to write the configuration files in "Documents and Settings" which is better than the first option except that many game developers took the decision to either write to the "Default user" or the "All users" directory. That poses a problem since a normal user doesn't have write access to either one of those directories (some games like ET:WQ do it the right way i.e. they write the configuration files to the user's personal directory);

On running:

Up to now, all games using PB had to be run with admin privileges because of the way PB needs to check stuff outside of the user's permission realm (good hackers know better than to hook their cheats directly in the user's process of the game). Unfortunately, the only solution EvenBalance has found is to run PB with full system privileges (at least in Windows because in Linux, PB runs in userland without problems). I don't like the fact that PB has to run as a system service, but it's still a better solution than to have to run a game as admin just to use PB;

P.S.: People have talked about VAC in this thread. As far as system security goes, VAC is far better than PB. It doesn't require admin privileges to run, to update, etc. I even dreamt that ET:QW would be available on Steam and would not use PB!

[Mithikal]

@OP

Lol there are alot more harmful companies than EvenBalance. If someone wanted your bank accounts they wouldn't go through punkbuster.

You think PB is going to go through every file on your PC and steal you accounts? The only thing it would look for at first would be basic hacking equipment, if it found them then I guess it would search deeper.

So if you were a hacker you would know how to prevent such things from happening. Unless your a script kiddy then I am all for PunkBuster looking through you files. Don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.

[Punisher|ITA]

I've yet to find one single game that doesn't require admin privileges one way or the other mainly because of Microsoft OS "strategy" but also because of game developers' laziness.

On install:

Most games' installer will force installation in the "Program Files" directory. A normal user doesn't have write access to that directory by default;

Many games' installer will want to write shit in the HKLM key of the registry. Again, a normal user doesn't have write access to that part of the registry by default;

Some games' installer will want to write files in %SYSTEMROOT% (mainly dlls which is incomprehensible since a dll could reside within the same directory as the executable binary). And again, a normal user doesn't have write access to that directory by default.

On configuration:

Up to now, most games have been writing their configuration files into their main directory (which is in "Program Files"). In this case, the only solution is for an admin to give write access for the game's main directory to a normal user;

The new trend is to write the configuration files in "Documents and Settings" which is better than the first option except that many game developers took the decision to either write to the "Default user" or the "All users" directory. That poses a problem since a normal user doesn't have write access to either one of those directories (some games like ET:WQ do it the right way i.e. they write the configuration files to the user's personal directory);

On running:

Up to now, all games using PB had to be run with admin privileges because of the way PB needs to check stuff outside of the user's permission realm (good hackers know better than to hook their cheats directly in the user's process of the game). Unfortunately, the only solution EvenBalance has found is to run PB with full system privileges (at least in Windows because in Linux, PB runs in userland without problems). I don't like the fact that PB has to run as a system service, but it's still a better solution than to have to run a game as admin just to use PB;

P.S.: People have talked about VAC in this thread. As far as system security goes, VAC is far better than PB. It doesn't require admin privileges to run, to update, etc. I even dreamt that ET:QW would be available on Steam and would not use PB!

They could be my own words. Nothing else to add.

[RR2DO2]

I've yet to find one single game that doesn't require admin privileges one way or the other mainly because of Microsoft OS "strategy" but also because of game developers' laziness.

On install:

Most games' installer will force installation in the "Program Files" directory. A normal user doesn't have write access to that directory by default;


That's why we write to directories like My Documents, or directories that can be written to by all users, like Local Settings/Application data. This is similar to installing in /usr/bleh and writing data to /home/username/.appname/ on Linux


Many games' installer will want to write shit in the HKLM key of the registry. Again, a normal user doesn't have write access to that part of the registry by default;


The installer can write to this fine, and is allowed to. The installer always asks for admin rights to do so.


Some games' installer will want to write files in %SYSTEMROOT% (mainly dlls which is incomprehensible since a dll could reside within the same directory as the executable binary). And again, a normal user doesn't have write access to that directory by default.


For those kind of DLLs (usually Microsoft provided) we use the correct redistributables. Only shared dlls go in there, not app specific ones.


On configuration:

Up to now, most games have been writing their configuration files into their main directory (which is in "Program Files"). In this case, the only solution is for an admin to give write access for the game's main directory to a normal user;

The new trend is to write the configuration files in "Documents and Settings" which is better than the first option except that many game developers took the decision to either write to the "Default user" or the "All users" directory. That poses a problem since a normal user doesn't have write access to either one of those directories (some games like ET:WQ do it the right way i.e. they write the configuration files to the user's personal directory);


Yep, see my comments above.


On running:

Up to now, all games using PB had to be run with admin privileges because of the way PB needs to check stuff outside of the user's permission realm (good hackers know better than to hook their cheats directly in the user's process of the game). Unfortunately, the only solution EvenBalance has found is to run PB with full system privileges (at least in Windows because in Linux, PB runs in userland without problems). I don't like the fact that PB has to run as a system service, but it's still a better solution than to have to run a game as admin just to use PB;

P.S.: People have talked about VAC in this thread. As far as system security goes, VAC is far better than PB. It doesn't require admin privileges to run, to update, etc. I even dreamt that ET:QW would be available on Steam and would not use PB!

PB doesn;'t actually need full system privileges, unfortunately I don't think you can tweak the exact level a service runs on (correct me if I'm wrong). There used to be a list of the exact requirements on the Even Balance site, but I can't find it at the moment.

[SkunK]

...

My point was that playing a game as it's "meant to be played" on Windows absolutely needs Admin powers at one point (installation and/or configuration and/or running).

Take the ET:QW beta for instance. I did manage to play the first release without any admin intervention. All I did was to extract the main .exe, copy the Data folder to my desktop, and directly run etqw.exe from that folder. The game ran fine without having to install anything (not even the DirectX files). But I cannot do the same with the update because someone made it so that the setup (which requires admin privileges) has to be fully run to get access to all the game files. I understand that part of the setup is related to PB but I would still have prefered to be able to play ET:QW without having to install it the Microsoft way.

[GDFCOMMANDO]

My problem with this game is the Punkbuster.

I don't like cheaters but I don't like my privacy being invaded even more. Read their new PBEULA.txt. They can look anywhere in your PC and send back to their servers anything they want. This time they simply have gone too far with this. There are lots of private things stored on my PC: addresses, back accounts, credit card numbers, phone numbers and bunch of other stuff. Well they cover their asses with EULA and then do whatever they want. Would you like to come in into my house and go through my things saying "We are allowed to do so because you bought a game that uses PB and you agreed to the EULA and after all if you are an honest guy then you have nothing to hide?" I'm sorry the answer is "No, you can not!" This is the worst case of invasion of privacy and abuse of power I have ever seen or heard of.

I also don't like them running their services 24/7 and wasting my system recourses. They don't feel like informing you about it so they just install their program, set it to run automatically every time you start your PC and then you're sitting there and wondering how come I spent all this money for this top of the line PC but it runs so slow. Often the answer is people like those behind the PB installing bunch of crap on your PC without informing you about it and then running it all the time. Nowadays there are so many of these type of insolent fellows on the internet that often more than a half of your system resources are being used by their spying programs and you don't even know about it.

On top of that their software is often flawed and can open your PC to anybody on the internet. Do you think they take responsibility for that? Nope, their software is optional so it's your own problem if your PC is being opened to the whole wide world because of them. They can patch it later but they do not guarantee anything.

PB can also ban you from the game and they don't have to give you any kind of explanation they can just do so and there's nothing you can do about it. I personally have never been banned by PB but some of my friends have been.

Even after uninstall QW:ET the PB remains on your system and runs every time you start your PC. Look in the services PnkBstrA.exe and PnkBstrB.exe they stay there and they start automatically. This is 24/7 spy ware that is going to reside on your PC sending anything they want back to them even if you uninstall all games that support PB.

Here's how to remove this crap:
Download the following program http://www.evenbalance.com/downloads/pbsvc/pbsvc.exe
Open the program above and click the "Uninstall" button. This will remove the PnkBstrA.exe and PnkBstrB.exe services.
Some may need to remove the registry entries.
Back up your current registry just in case then go to START, RUN, type regedit and search for these: PnkBstrA, PnkBstrB and PnkBstrK, just right click on the folder when you find it and delete it.
Also in C:\windows\system32\drivers is PnkBstrK.sys that is safe to delete.

I will not install any games that come with this crap ever on my PC again! Unless there are significant changes in the way they implement it.


HOLY SHET, lets tell the president.

[selfinfliction]

my only complaint with punkbuster is that it fscks up gameplay for nearly 100% of the people, to catch less than 1% of the cheaters.

go look on some of those cheater forums (you can search them by using google, then clicking on the "cached page" link) some of those like msx have well over 100,000 members. now you tell me how many bans are on EVERY punkbuster list that is made?

server admins do better job at catching hackers than punkbuster ever imagined. so why ruin gameplay for all the customers, to catch 0.75% of the cheaters? and those who play battlefield know exactly how punkbuster has fscked up the game

[reyalp]

my only complaint with punkbuster is that it fscks up gameplay for nearly 100% of the people, to catch less than 1% of the cheaters.

This isn't my experience. Certainly PB has it's share of problems, but I've been playing PB enabled id games for years (rtcw and ET mostly) and the vast majority of that time haven't had any trouble with it.

PB certainly doesn't catch every cheat, but widespread public ones certainly do get caught.

[mortis]

Punkbuster is to video games what the "club" is to car theft devices. It won't deter a professional thief, but it will cause the lazy/dumb/inexperienced ones to move on to the next car. PB keeps out the vast bulk of common cheats. Private cheats will always be effective. If it prevents 80% of cheaters from being able to play on my server, I'd be quite pleased. The private cheats are only caught by careful admin observation, and the use of demos to verify aimbot 'characteristic' behavior. With the Club, you still need police. With PB, you still need experienced admins. Both are better than nothing at all, though!

[siiix]

Krillin, don't have any links handy. But say you are running as a restricted user and for example visit a malicious website where you end up downloading a bit of dodgy software. And *oops* you run it. Now unless this software exploits a security hole in the OS, as a restricted user it won't be able to do much to the core of the system. Sure it can run and do something to that user account, but it won't be able to hide, take over a virus scanner, install a rootkit or anything like that.

Now if you would be running as an administrator, it would have free reign.

siiix: every gamer should run as a restricted reason, there shouldn't be any reason not to. If some software prevents you from running in a restricted environment, I would contact the developers of said software and get them to fix the problems.

ok although i worked both as programmer and as network admin and tech-support (so i know what i'm doing) not only i run on admin but i have not ANY sort of firewall/virus/adware software enabled OR even installed and i even forward ALL ports strait to my rig(and thats now for over 2 years),
now 1st i was afraid i will get like infected with all kinds of stuff all the time, yet i only get some maybe once a year, so no big deal - if i cant remove it my self i just reinstall windows, it 1000% better to having to reinstall windows 1x a year then slowing down the PC 24/7 and/or having to deal with logins

follow some easy free guidelines and you be safe:
-minimum windows version xp-sp2
-keep up with security updates
-use for all sites you can firefox (not IE)
-once a week look at msconfig that new new services or task are added
-in msconfig/startup-tab keep as few chekmarks as possible (i have 2)
-once a month (while you work/sleep) run an online scan like bitdefender.com (to find eventual hiden viruses)
-you download files form file sharing networks, hack sites ect. SCAN 1ST the downloaded files before you execute with an online scan like bitdefender.com (DUH) ; )

[Viperkhan]

Who reads the NDA anyway? :) Believe me sir, that not everything written on a piece of paper/online page consitutes a legal agreement. They can surely take information -related- to the testing of ET:QW, information that is of relevance to the job they are doing - trust me, if they go beyond the border of relevance, you can take them to court and earn a lot of money.

The going trend when it comes to the NDA, is that a lot of players click I AGREE without reading a single line - because yes, they assume that most of these agreements are standard issue agreements used over and over again by most developing companies. Not having read an agreement such as the NDA for a game test, can in this case be excused as it is not the common thing to do. It still doesn't mean they are ALLOWED to write "Hi, if you sign this agreement, we will own your girlfriend, your mother, your football and your house- thanks, and enjoy the game." Agreements taking advantage of people like that are what we call ILLEGAL agreements and you will be able to get out of it quite easely. Of course, this is mainly regarding game NDAs and the like, agreements made by companies to the general public enmasse.

In short; Don't worry. Besides, Punkbuster is a wellknown and established company, which have had the trust of multiple gaming companies in the industry for years now.

[sponge]

yet i only get some maybe once a year, so no big deal - if i cant remove it my self i just reinstall windows, it 1000% better to having to reinstall windows 1x a year then slowing down the PC 24/7 and/or having to deal with logins

That may be fine for you, but that ISN'T fine for the other 90% of computer users who don't know how to reinstall Windows, or not do stupid thing.

[FoggyFreek]

Why keep this thread up so high all the time.. It's way off-topic and the subject isn't what you call 'very positive'. I say close it :)

[RR2DO2]

Info in the thread is still useful. Changed topic :)

[Spiffe]

Now, i checked my running processes in taskmgr. And I actually found PNKBSTR.exe something like that. wich aint supposed to run, for sure, if i dont know about it.

And if they really have that access as the thread starter say they do. (i didnt read te eula that much :P) then it really SUCKS! and its competely redicilous. How about something like the VAC for cs... cant they do like an SDAC hehe.

Man.

[AlexTrp]

FoggyFreek you are getting off topic this thread is to show what PunkBuster does when your not playing games and only people who don't care about their privacy will say "Oh don't Play" "Oh Whiner" "Oh lets close this thread" etc... just wake up and smell the ashes...


=========== Update =============
Ahahaha Even Balance was so scared to answer me they deleted my Ticket, what a bunch of freaking hackers, they freaking make a sh*ty software that doesn't do jack sh*t but steal your informations

Deleted Ticket: (Posted Last night)
http://www.evenbalance.com/troubleticket/update_ticket.php?ticketnumber=EB6763000170595&password=6ef8f66427d1ae356aa03fc6a0599f&special_message=new_ticket

[siiix]

That may be fine for you, but that ISN'T fine for the other 90% of computer users who don't know how to reinstall Windows, or not do stupid thing.

well most people do have to reinstall anyways because windows just brakes down if you do not do proper maintenance (like removing unnecessary startup items), plus most of you probably experiences getting a virus even trough you had norton or mcaffe active and uptodate... how of then it gave you a warning YET it was not possible to remove the virus.. so you still had to reinstall

if someone using the computer every day for browsing, gaming and downloading i highly doubt you get out of reinstalling windows after a year no mater if you have virus/adware protection and if are an admin-user or not

[RR2DO2]

Spiffe, please read the rest of the thread.

AlexTrip, as I said, PB doesn't really do anything when you aren't running the game.

[camper1]

Running it as a service is the only possible way to get the crappiest anti-cheat program around working on a restriced user account.

You can always programatically turn it on or off. This thread is full of adolescent fearmongering, seriously. And I've seen many an anonymous network security professional claiming that they can run perfectly fine (security? who needs security?), whereas the norm is pretty much the exact opposite - where people actually put forth their credentials and a name.

ZOMFG TEH EULA OWNZ UR 1ST BR0N LOLZ.

Oh, and why not VAC?

[siiix]

And I've seen many an anonymous network security professional claiming that they can run perfectly fine (security? who needs security?), whereas the norm is pretty much the exact opposite - where people actually put forth their credentials and a name.

where do you get this "anonymous" stuff ? the ones you refer to "put forth their credentials and a name" what do you thinks what the reason for that ? lol , they want to make them selfs a name and so get some busine$$

where when guys like me tell you that you don't need that, its FREE advice AND you even save on unnecessary software, there is no money to be made so its not necessary to put down name or credencials, its preactical reasons not privacy

but hey here my business address:
andras szabo
7657 Winnetka Ave #251
Winnetka, CA 91306

my IM contact info is listed under my user image

i wont post here my resume
but i list a few jobs i had:
novotrade/activision budapest game programing
ibm/earst&young tampa network/and full tech support
time warner RR tampa network installations
time warner RR tampa highest level support

for some years i don't need a job anylonger to support my self and live in the EU, so i do not need a job or money, yet i stay to what i say

so happy now ? : )

[AlexTrp]

Wow a real game programmer nice i would love for you to join my upcoming clan since you no longer work.

[SlinkyX]

It great that this SD developer wants to impose his view on security on me but I'm sorry but I will keep running my system as an administrator and I don't like to have two more services lingering around and installing themselves on startup. All other games using punkbuster like BF2 clean up after themselves and that is the way it should be.
Why not ask the user and give him the option of using either services or the traditional approach.

Again..running a gaming machine as non-administrator on XP IS A PIPE DREAM!!!!!

[sponge]

Again..running a gaming machine as non-administrator on XP IS A PIPE DREAM!!!!!

It is a pipe dream due to ignorant statements like yours. There is no technical reason stopping anyone from having a game that runs under a LUA. Infact, I've been playing games since the Quake 1 port to Linux back 1996 all without running under root, or another administrator account. Yes, even PunkBuster works under Linux under a normal account, however due to the inadequate security model of XP (and to a lesser degree, Vista) this is no longer possible.

No one's saying you have to run under a limited user, but just because you want to remain ignorant of security doesn't mean that SD should take the easy way out, and only support people running the game as an administrator.

[SlinkyX]

It is a pipe dream due to ignorant statements like yours. There is no technical reason stopping anyone from having a game that runs under a LUA. Infact, I've been playing games since the Quake 1 port to Linux back 1996 all without running under root, or another administrator account. Yes, even PunkBuster works under Linux under a normal account, however due to the inadequate security model of XP (and to a lesser degree, Vista) this is no longer possible.

No one's saying you have to run under a limited user, but just because you want to remain ignorant of security doesn't mean that SD should take the easy way out, and only support people running the game as an administrator.

I have a dozen or so games on my XP machine. I'm sure NONE of them work when I log on as a limited user and the same is true for countless other applications.

VISTA is a different story but I'm pretty sure SD has other things to worry about than security on vista given the lackluster driver performance for OpenGL.


I DON'T WANT A GAME TO INSTALL SERVICES BEHIND MY BACK WITHOUT LETTING ME KNOW AND WHICH RUN WHEN I DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME!!!!!!

[sponge]

I have a dozen or so games on my XP machine. I'm sure NONE of them work when I log on as a limited user and the same is true for countless other applications.

VISTA is a different story but I'm pretty sure SD has other things to worry about than security on vista given the lackluster driver performance for OpenGL.


I DON'T WANT A GAME TO INSTALL SERVICES BEHIND MY BACK WITHOUT LETTING ME KNOW AND WHICH RUN WHEN I DO NOT PLAY THIS GAME!!!!!!

OK, and as I pointed out, and you completely ignored, there is no technical reason this has to be true. But, regardless, I'll help you out by suggesting you should avoid all games listed here (http://evenbalance.com/), since the PunkBuster service is going to become standard across all games eventually.

[SlinkyX]

OK, and as I pointed out, and you completely ignored, there is no technical reason this has to be true. But, regardless, I'll help you out by suggesting you should avoid all games listed here (http://evenbalance.com/), since the PunkBuster service is going to become standard across all games eventually.

-Look at the taskbar and make sure no punkbuster service is running
- Load BF2 or BF2142
-close it down
No PB services running....

I think this is a problem with how SD integrated punkbuster in the beta and not a punkbuster issue itself. If I'm wrong on this then I direct my rant at evenbalance.

[RR2DO2]

SlinkyX, you are wrong. PB is going to run as a service for reasons stated several times in this thread. And yes, it will be the case for BF2 or BF2142 too, unless they don't care about being properly compatible with the OS they and don't upgrade to the latest versions of PB.

And there absolutely isn't anything wrong with PB running in the background. If you can give me any proof of it impacting anything that you are doing when not running the game, let me know. The process will be mainly idle, and almost completely paged out of physical RAM. If you do see any unreasonable resource issues, feel free to open a ticket over at Even Balance's support page.

[SlinkyX]

SlinkyX, you are wrong. PB is going to run as a service for reasons stated several times in this thread. And yes, it will be the case for BF2 or BF2142 too, unless they don't care about being properly compatible with the OS they and don't upgrade to the latest versions of PB.

And there absolutely isn't anything wrong with PB running in the background. If you can give me any proof of it impacting anything that you are doing when not running the game, let me know. The process will be mainly idle, and almost completely paged out of physical RAM. If you do see any unreasonable resource issues, feel free to open a ticket over at Even Balance's support page.

Ok. I stand corrected. This clears things up further:
http://www.evenbalance.com/index.php?page=pbsvcfaq.php

[SlinkyX]

Maybe the link above should be made sticky

[siiix]

SlinkyX, you are wrong. PB is going to run as a service for reasons stated several times in this thread. And yes, it will be the case for BF2 or BF2142 too, unless they don't care about being properly compatible with the OS they and don't upgrade to the latest versions of PB.

And there absolutely isn't anything wrong with PB running in the background. If you can give me any proof of it impacting anything that you are doing when not running the game, let me know. The process will be mainly idle, and almost completely paged out of physical RAM. If you do see any unreasonable resource issues, feel free to open a ticket over at Even Balance's support page.

yet if you have 10, 20 or 50 of those "idle" services your windows will run like some PC made 1999 no mater if you have 2gb ram, if the game is not running PB has no business "idling" away my resources, and that i have to fuk around with bat files to stop and start is ab absolutely not acceptable.. especially because i have no choice if i want to play games

BTW i DID open a "ticket over at Even Balance's support page" the 1st day i noticed this sloppy coding job, they sent me a form email telling me i have no choice like it or not

[RickDangerous]

For those wondering what files Punkbuster is checking or accessing, download FileMon (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/FileAndDisk/Filemon.mspx) and add a filter for pnkbstr* (yes, including the *), if you don't filter you get too much info. Then play QW. After you exit you'll see exactly what punkbuster has been upto.

You can do the same for the registry using RegMon (http://www.microsoft.com/technet/sysinternals/Utilities/Regmon.mspx).

[SlinkyX]

yet if you have 10, 20 or 50 of those "idle" services your windows will run like some PC made 1999 no mater if you have 2gb ram, if the game is not running PB has no business "idling" away my resources, and that i have to fuk around with bat files to stop and start is ab absolutely not acceptable.. especially because i have no choice if i want to play games

BTW i DID open a "ticket over at Even Balance's support page" the 1st day i noticed this sloppy coding job, they sent me a form email telling me i have no choice like it or not

At least now we know that this criticism has to be directed at evenbalance not SD but I do agree with you completely. The "right" solution if there is really no way around using those services for non-administrator accounts is to provide a check-box when installing punkbuster that enables starting and stopping those services with the game for people running as admins. I can kill them easily enough but there seems to be no way to start them up again.

[gurgle]

OK, and as I pointed out, and you completely ignored, there is no technical reason this has to be true. But, regardless, I'll help you out by suggesting you should avoid all games listed here (http://evenbalance.com/), since the PunkBuster service is going to become standard across all games eventually.

all games eventually? I dont think so. What about VAC, which runs a helluva lot better then PB does.

[siiix]

At least now we know that this criticism has to be directed at evenbalance not SD but I do agree with you completely. The "right" solution if there is really no way around using those services for non-administrator accounts is to provide a check-box when installing punkbuster that enables starting and stopping those services with the game for people running as admins. I can kill them easily enough but there seems to be no way to start them up again.

unfortunately although PB is stating that is only for NON admin accounts, but as i said i ONLY have admin account on my PC yet the services are there

actually i consider this a BUG on the PB software, and this is why i made this ticket to begin with

look up this tread, there are ways to start them again
but here again (bat file):

Net Start PnkBstrA
Net Start PnkBstrB

[sponge]

all games eventually? I dont think so. What about VAC, which runs a helluva lot better then PB does.

I specifically was stating the games on the page that I linked to less than one line before, implying that the PB service will eventually be standardized. Please re-read my messages before accusing me of claims I did not make.

[gurgle]

I was just reading your message. You said:

"since the PunkBuster service is going to become standard across all games eventually."

?

[ÐýLãN]

Face it there is always more people Willing to put effort in and even pay for cheats than there is People Putting effort and money into Stopping Cheats.

I imagine little kids getting there pocket money and spending it on cheats, this helps me think how sadcheaters are lol ^^

[Hakuryu]

That pnkbstra service that is always running stops some games of mine from working.

Titan Quest - started when pnkbstra service was running. Game would seem to launch, a black screen came up, and then just hanged there. CTRL+ALT+DELETE + end process on Titan Quest, then end process on pnkbstra service, then retry Titan Quest and the same thing - hang. Rebooted, shut down pnkbstra service before starting TQ, and everything worked fine.

I see the need for punkbuster, but if it breaks my other games, or I have to remember to manually shut it down before playing another game... Not acceptable. Needs some work.

[PrippsBlue]

What happens with the game.....punkbuster kick u all the time:(
For the moment the game is crap...will never play it anymore:mad:
Hope u will done some more on the game:)
But for the moment the game is shit with PB:(
cya
Pripps

[Oklop]

to all of u saying that PB is a so perfect here is a little thing to see how they can fu*k up...the only 2 games im playing at the moment is et:qw and true combat elite (modification for w:et)...both use pb...what does pnkbstrB.exe does to me when i play tce?
here is what:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/ioklobdz/pnk.jpg

pnkbstrb.exe is still in testing...did i signup for the testing...noooooo...but still it is messing with my computer and giveing me fps drops and lag...wohoooo the mighty old PB...if i try to remove it to be able to play TCE i cant play et:qw...so i install new pb for et:qw...but then tce gets ****ed up so i have to remove it again (pbsvc.exe then delete pb folder and registry entrys and then install pb again)...nice isnt it...

[siiix]

to all of u saying that PB is a so perfect here is a little thing to see how they can fu*k up...the only 2 games im playing at the moment is et:qw and true combat elite (modification for w:et)...both use pb...what does pnkbstrB.exe does to me when i play tce?
here is what:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/ioklobdz/pnk.jpg

pnkbstrb.exe is still in testing...did i signup for the testing...noooooo...but still it is messing with my computer and giveing me fps drops and lag...wohoooo the mighty old PB...if i try to remove it to be able to play TCE i cant play et:qw...so i install new pb for et:qw...but then tce gets ****ed up so i have to remove it again (pbsvc.exe then delete pb folder and registry entrys and then install pb again)...nice isnt it...

what kinda CPU you having ? 33% is crazy high, i don't think i saw mine going ever over the 1 digit range

maybe reinstall PB only

[crimson]

pha ban all cheaters, but NO WAY pb will run as a service 24/7 on my system.

i don´t really care for the cpu/mem load since its slim to none BUT its a goddamn security hole -> starting and closing it manualy ..

i consider this as riskware and a bug and everybody who argues that this is fine because of whatever is insane !

[Alera]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v211/ioklobdz/pnk.jpg
No ET:QW Running:- http://source-dq.com/systemusage1.jpg
ET:QW Running:- http://source-dq.com/systemusage2.jpg
(High resolution so I can't directly link).

Kindly note the CPU usage and Memory usage of Punkbuster. Now note that my Mouse drivers consume more memory than PB when it's idling or active (Mouse driver = setpoint.exe). I'm drawing a 0% load on taskmanager for both PB processes, so either you've got a really terrible computer or you've done something wrong. I played for one full hour tonight with taskmanager open on my other monitor and not once did PB spike above that 0%...

[siiix]

No ET:QW Running:- http://source-dq.com/systemusage1.jpg


can i please have your windows background picture ? if you do siiix @ msn . com

btw what kinda CPU you have ? i have a really decent system but according to your task list yours must beat mine by far.

[Morgenstern]

we're still beta testing etqw...
means: the game - and even punkbuster - is not ready yet. so report bugs or errors and stop crying ;)

[Oklop]

what kinda CPU you having ? 33% is crazy high, i don't think i saw mine going ever over the 1 digit range

maybe reinstall PB only

im using c2d e4300...i reinstaled PB in the last 2 weeks more times than i can remember and im getting tired of that...some times pnkbstrB.exe is eating as much as 50%...u can imagine how smooth the game is then...

[[BT]Black V]

No, and your task manager will show 0% network utilization. It works that way because of Vista security.

its got nothing to do with Vista

the 2 punkbuster applications are still running on my XP pc even after the uninstall of Quake wars

and on top of that they are both sitting there listening on tcp ports waiting for connections from god knows where

[Sim]

im using c2d e4300...i reinstaled PB in the last 2 weeks more times than i can remember and im getting tired of that...some times pnkbstrB.exe is eating as much as 50%...u can imagine how smooth the game is then...

Evenbalance says to run game in window mode then check it, minimizing out of game to check it gives a false reading.

It will take up to 50% if you have a dual core, also, do NOT use alt tabbed CPU usage measurements. They are literally worthless. The only way to tell actual usage is from windowed mode, or multiple monitors. If you are having these unrealistic game usage values, please open a TT and tell us though. We are willing to work with you to find the cause.
That post can be found here (http://www.punksbusted.com/forums/index.php?s=&showtopic=36303&view=findpost&p=197954).(on punksbusted.com )


I just wish they could make it stop using system resources once you exit out of the game, other games anti cheat software stops using system resources once we exit it, so why can't evenbalance do the same?

[Alera]

can i please have your windows background picture ? if you do siiix @ msn . com
NEVAR! It's all mine. Mwahahah.

btw what kinda CPU you have ? i have a really decent system but according to your task list yours must beat mine by far.
Core2Duo E6300.

[AKIRA[CotC]]

No ET:QW Running:- http://source-dq.com/systemusage1.jpg
ET:QW Running:- http://source-dq.com/systemusage2.jpg
(High resolution so I can't directly link).

Kindly note the CPU usage and Memory usage of Punkbuster. Now note that my Mouse drivers consume more memory than PB when it's idling or active (Mouse driver = setpoint.exe). I'm drawing a 0% load on taskmanager for both PB processes, so either you've got a really terrible computer or you've done something wrong. I played for one full hour tonight with taskmanager open on my other monitor and not once did PB spike above that 0%...

You worry about two Punkbuster processes using 4Mb memory each (of which I'm noticing no CPU useage on them in either case), but you've got additional stuff running using up much more? You could shutdown Steam if you are worried about processes affecting a game running. :confused:

[Vodalian]

Ah.. Looks like this thread is flooded with FPS kiddies and fanboys with no concept of reality. As a programmer and system administrator, I can tell you first hand that PB doesn't just run and do nothing the whole day. It periodically scans your HD, reads the contents of files and sends a hash and key bits of information back to one of their servers. Even though many kiddies will say "HA BF2 USESZZ IT N00BIE sO IT MUCH BE FIne?!!1 Well anyone with brains would realize that sending your personal information to a server periodically while you are NOT currently playing the game is called spyware, whether or not they do it constantly, or you happen to 'notice it' <- A 10yr old FPS kiddie noticing PB sending info to a server? The same people who think that PB doesn't run on startup because it's not in their 'startup' folder? Right...

The point is, there is a fine line between beneficial anti-cheat and invading your personal security. Sure many people here don't give a damn, but many of those people are kiddies under the age of 13 who have nothing important and who lives little fantasy lives of 'pwning' behind the flashing of their monitor. Now, if you parents have valuable information stored like credit cards etc, I bet they would be just as concerned. You see, you reach a certain age where you start actually thinking and can understand that 'PWNING' in a video game is less important than your livelihood and personal security. It may take a while, but if you keep your fingers crossed, you guys may actually reach that phase eventually :)


Anyhow, if you don't want it to run on startup, do the following:

Run | Services.msc | right click 'pnkbstera' | properties | startuptype - manual

Then just end task it whenever you are done playing.

[Durandal]

I have to admit, this is one of the most aggressive and nasty forums I've ever been on. Anytime someone doesn't like something in the game, they get attacked and told to "go back 2 bf2 lolz" or something equally helpful.

The guy has a problem with something that is required if you want to play on pretty much all (if not all) ranked servers. Given that we get to watch adds to pay for that, he's perfectly within his rights to say he doesn't like the system in use.

[siiix]

you should see the total forums, people get banned by abusive admins just for saying you do not like something in the game, but before there is this flaming going on like you never seen before, but like every day

that forum must have the highest % of bans on any gaming forum i ever seen

i think this is great compared to those freaks : )

[sponge]

Ah.. Looks like this thread is flooded with FPS kiddies and fanboys with no concept of reality. As a programmer and system administrator, I can tell you first hand that PB doesn't just run and do nothing the whole day. It periodically scans your HD, reads the contents of files and sends a hash and key bits of information back to one of their servers.

Considering this is a violation of many American laws (where EB is based) and of EB's own privacy policy, I'm curious as to what 'first-hand' proof you actually have of this.

[Rafty]

Ah.. Looks like this thread is flooded with FPS kiddies and fanboys with no concept of reality. As a programmer and system administrator, I can tell you first hand that PB doesn't just run and do nothing the whole day. It periodically scans your HD, reads the contents of files and sends a hash and key bits of information back to one of their servers. Even though many kiddies will say "HA BF2 USESZZ IT N00BIE sO IT MUCH BE FIne?!!1 Well anyone with brains would realize that sending your personal information to a server periodically while you are NOT currently playing the game is called spyware, whether or not they do it constantly, or you happen to 'notice it' <- A 10yr old FPS kiddie noticing PB sending info to a server? The same people who think that PB doesn't run on startup because it's not in their 'startup' folder? Right...

The point is, there is a fine line between beneficial anti-cheat and invading your personal security. Sure many people here don't give a damn, but many of those people are kiddies under the age of 13 who have nothing important and who lives little fantasy lives of 'pwning' behind the flashing of their monitor. Now, if you parents have valuable information stored like credit cards etc, I bet they would be just as concerned. You see, you reach a certain age where you start actually thinking and can understand that 'PWNING' in a video game is less important than your livelihood and personal security. It may take a while, but if you keep your fingers crossed, you guys may actually reach that phase eventually :)


Anyhow, if you don't want it to run on startup, do the following:

Run | Services.msc | right click 'pnkbstera' | properties | startuptype - manual

Then just end task it whenever you are done playing.


1st) your right with your opinion about computer security. but there's a plenty of spyware in the world. nearly each software contents such stuff and most ppl do not really care about it. do you really think that punkbuster is dangerous? is it possible to view the pb spy activities?

2nd) you should read the threads about "the community age" ...

[siiix]

agreed, it is actually doing nothing, and as proof of that this is the main reason it cant find every hack immediately, because its NOT scanning the HD EVEN if a PB protected game is running, it only scans the memory and limited folders and files so the maximum it is allowed to do by law

[GoneMAD]

Considering this is a violation of many American laws (where EB is based) and of EB's own privacy policy, I'm curious as to what 'first-hand' proof you actually have of this.

his proof is he probably sees the light on his computer flash and his modem lights flash every so often when he's not doing anything

i mean that obviously means pb is scanning his hd and sending info back

[SuperDre]

I also just noticed the 2 services running, and I'm not happy with it. I don't mind the software running during gaming, but I do mind it running when not gaming.. It should start when the game starts and stop when the game stops, and not longer..
I must admit that I haven't read the EULA of punkbuster so I can't say that it states that it will start as a service always, but I just clicked yes, because I knew I needed it when playing online..

I do hope QW retail will have this fixed, because this is just not done.. even if this is the only way to get it working on something like vista..

Also 4MB in idle can be tought of as nothing, but a lot of 4MB services together can take up a lot of unnecessary space..

This will make me consider if I really want to buy QW since I really liked the demo, but having some anticheatprogram running ALWAYS even if I don't play the game is just not something I like to pay for, so I'll propably leave the game on the shopshelve and shell out for another game.. It's going the same route as the StarForce protection if we just keep on buying games using this kind of crap anticheatprotection...

[sponge]

I do hope QW retail will have this fixed, because this is just not done.. even if this is the only way to get it working on something like vista..

So Vista compatibility should be removed because you don't like an extra service running? Is that what you're trying to imply?

PB requires administrator access to run. This is the way you do it in Vista, since running as an administrator is being greatly discouraged. Unless you want Windows Defender to pop up every time PB does something, that is.

If you run Windows as an admin, you are more than free to set it to manual, or even disable it, and the game will load PnkbstrB like normal (unsure about disabled, sure about manual). If you don't want to even do that, then tough luck.

I noticed Steam did something like this when I upgraded it recently on my Vista laptop, too.

[Durandal]

So Vista compatibility should be removed because you don't like an extra service running? Is that what you're trying to imply?
So all players should essentially contend with (I'll call it malware) because people bought a buggy, unpatched operating system because it was 'new'?

Just putting the other side of the debate in there.

[sponge]

So all players should essentially contend with (I'll call it malware) because people bought a buggy, unpatched operating system because it was 'new'?

Just putting the other side of the debate in there.

Calling Vista a buggy, unpatched operating system, and implying that the only reason people bought it because it's new is your opinion.

What this new OS requires in terms of software developers is a fact. Minor difference between the two, something that seems to be blurred far too often here.

You calling it malware is not only wrong, but it's attempting to tug on people's emotions by trying to label it with something bad. Please don't blatantly lie unless you have proof to show.

If you truly represent the other side of the "debate", then they standing on quicksand, because frankly there was nothing you said worth calling a point.

[2phew]

i added CPU TIME to my colums list in the task manager and my pc has been on all day as it were and havent played a single game as of now the cpu time for PnkBstrA.exe is at 0:00:00 (system idle process is 13 hrs) so am i right in thinking that this service has indead been totally idle all day and done absolutely nothing ? wont this change if it were indead busy gathering info or gaming ?
or once its in memory it doesnt use the cpu at all ? id say no to that
i have no issue with it there in the first place just curious

[selfinfliction]

PB requires administrator access to run. This is the way you do it in Vista, since running as an administrator is being greatly discouraged. Unless you want Windows Defender to pop up every time PB does something, that is.

If you run Windows as an admin, you are more than free to set it to manual, or even disable it, and the game will load PnkbstrB like normal (unsure about disabled, sure about manual). If you don't want to even do that, then tough luck.



oh lord a punkbuster fanboi. punkbuster sucks ass, it always has and always will. punkbuster runs on my computer fine, but you'd be suprised how easy it is to have the services scanning an imaginary computer and letting my 2142 hacks run fine. i've been hacking games for over 3 years now, and never once has any of my aimbots, anti fog, minimaps, nametags or anything else i have created, been detected. the punkfscker services are nothing more than a new way for pb to use up more of my ram. what a joke.

[sponge]

oh lord a punkbuster fanboi. punkbuster sucks ass, it always has and always will. punkbuster runs on my computer fine, but you'd be suprised how easy it is to have the services scanning an imaginary computer and letting my 2142 hacks run fine. i've been hacking games for over 3 years now, and never once has any of my aimbots, anti fog, minimaps, nametags or anything else i have created, been detected. the punkfscker services are nothing more than a new way for pb to use up more of my ram. what a joke.

Fantastic, now go download a spelling and grammar bot, and do something worthwhile rather than wasting my time. Scanning an imaginary computer? Laugh.

[siiix]

oh lord a punkbuster fanboi. punkbuster sucks ass, it always has and always will. punkbuster runs on my computer fine, but you'd be suprised how easy it is to have the services scanning an imaginary computer and letting my 2142 hacks run fine. i've been hacking games for over 3 years now, and never once has any of my aimbots, anti fog, minimaps, nametags or anything else i have created, been detected. the punkfscker services are nothing more than a new way for pb to use up more of my ram. what a joke.

the mere fact that you write what you wrote here proves that you lying.
if you would have any clue about programing or how pb even works you would know that pb cant ever catch custom (self-made) hacks, it works just like a virus check looks for specific code or behavior already added to the database of existing hacks, pb buys any new comercial hack right avay and analyses them to be able to catch that specific version

as you write you hacks your self they (unlike hacks available to wide public) pb would have no chance of adding a sample of your work to the database

unlike the code for viruses, hacks do not replicate them self so buying them is the only way getting the code

as well it would be pointless catching that 1 guy under 10000 players who has the skills to create hacks him self, the point of pb is to limit the commercial masses from using hacks

[selfinfliction]

Fantastic, now go download a spelling and grammar bot, and do something worthwhile rather than wasting my time. Scanning an imaginary computer? Laugh.

you're right, it can't be done and i won't be doing it here either. lol

[sponge]

you're right, it can't be done and i won't be doing it here either. lol

Considering what you said makes absolutely zero sense, no, that can't be done. Scanning a computer that doesn't exist? What? That's just wrong on so many different levels.

More likely, I think you're just a garden variety cheater who likes speaking out of various holes.

[Dee]

I totally agree with TERATOGEN with his first post..

As a game vendor or developer as respectible as ID Software, we deserve better treatment than "Either this way, or don't use punkbuster" at least if punkstupidbuster isn't going to shut down in the background, it should at least STOP FUUCKING LISTENING TO THE INTERNET.. the service is not only running, but its connection is always active and ready to accept any connection..

they think they're smart? well, I'm sure they're not as smart as Microsoft at the first place.. and they think they can handle the responsibility of having a service that is listening to all your IP addresses on your machine.. including LAN, VPN, internet.. and shit.. even if I trust their intentions I do not trust their programmers, they seem to have a lot of issues already.. we all seen it happen so don't denie it.. what if it had a big security breach that they doesn't know about? what if all these information that TERATOGEN mentioned got hijacked by some hacker freaks.. don't say it wont happen, cuz you know it's possible if you use your freakin mind..

So PunkBuster needs to reconsider its policy. and a game like this one should pay more attention to making their customers "Happy" .. So far, I am not happy with it, infact i had to make some batch files to stop and remove the punkbuster service completely from my system every single time I stop playing a punkbuster game.. imagine if more arrogant game makers will consider more shit like punkbuster..

[Gel]

The latest pb (services etc) seem to clog up my system memory such that I have to reboot after I play a game (it's ET and ETQW when I play online - if I replay a demo -it's fine)

I created a support ticket - they answered "uninstall and reinstall" which didn't fix it - and they have refused to respond for several weeks now after I told them it didn't work...

I have created a new support ticket with them telling them that their support ticket system is not working correctly.

I would just be happy if evenbalance actually allowed legitimate players to be able to play unhindered tbh. It seems the only people that could play unhindered are the people who are circumventing punkbuster :/

[idgad]

Punkbuster A, B or whatever they are suck. They never protect us from cheaters but only waste space on our system. If you go to a game like americas army with punkbusters running in background, you know there are still so many cheaters out there. They should include their own anti cheat things in their programs instead of running troublesome background programs.

[FuseDBerserK]

You could follow a previous post about setting the PB services to "manual" and then create a .bat file in your QW:ET installation directory with the following lines:
net start <punkBusterB>
net start <punkBusterA>
qwet.exe
net stop <punkBusterB>
net stop <punkBusterA>

then use this .bat file to start the game.

I have been using this method from the BETA1 with no problems.

I am very sorry to say that I have already seen a guy on DEMO release to use aimbot - he got 160+ kills in a round that lasted 15mins... So punkBuster is out of date already. pffff.. cheating on a DEMO.. how lame is that?!

[siiix]

pffff.. cheating on a DEMO.. how lame is that?!

is it any lamer then cheating on the full game ?
its all the same its a MP game

actually in a demo you have less to lose as you do not have a cd-key to lose, so its cheating with no risk

[Lekdevil.NL]

As a game vendor or developer as respectible as ID Software, we deserve better treatment than "Either this way, or don't use punkbuster" at least if punkstupidbuster isn't going to shut down in the background, it should at least STOP FUUCKING LISTENING TO THE INTERNET.. the service is not only running, but its connection is always active and ready to accept any connection..
It's not.
pnkbstra.exe:1504 UDP 127.0.0.1:44301 *:*
PnkBstrB.exe:3632 UDP 127.0.0.1:45301 *:*

Sockets bound to localhost cannot accept outside traffic.

[mortis]

It's not.
pnkbstra.exe:1504 UDP 127.0.0.1:44301 *:*
PnkBstrB.exe:3632 UDP 127.0.0.1:45301 *:*

Sockets bound to localhost cannot accept outside traffic.

Stop trying to confuse them with the truth! :)