What will YOU do first with the SDK?

[jRAD]

I'm curious. What will be the first thing that you think you'll do once the ET:QW SDK is out? Fire up the editor? Take a dive into the code (where do you think you'd start)? Tweak around an atmosphere? Hack some defs? Juggle some scripts?

What kind of experience are you looking forward to "out of the box"?

[Kamikazee]

Find stuff to write about on Modwiki (http://www.modwiki.net).

Like the objective scripting.

[Joe999]

create the largest possible megatexture and test atmospheric stuff, day/night time etc and create a racing map

[Domipheus]

Check the code into my repository, and change whatever version string I can to read 'Wheels of War v0.1' :)

Then faff around with the vehicles :

Edit: and while i remember, Find in files '<insert swearword here>'

[Bravo35]

oh, like map editors? if i was actually good at it i would prolly help make a racing map with someone who knew what he was doing

[murka10]

prolly some wierd map of stroggos with nice scripted toys.

[Bravo35]

someone should make a map with carriers with giant cannons and have all the navy stuff with all out warfare with airial combat as well

[Stektr33]

what does the sdk contain?
headers? map editor? documentation?

i would like to see the default mod's source and compile it, then go from there.

p.s. I've never mod'ed so I don't know what comes in these sdk's.

[jonny b]

I've got an idea for a map that I hope to create. I'd like to 'create' some dynamic objectives which will hopefully keep ppl on their feet.

Maybe work with tr33 like we did in the past with the "Trailer Park".

[WeblionX]

Seems like everyone's looking to make a racing map. I've got a few ideas to work on, put in a nice list (http://weblionx.ettw.net/d3e/todo.html) to peruse. I'm hoping to get the race map mostly done relatively quickly so if a racing mod comes out (I know someone who might make one) I can find out any changes that would be helpful in making a full map.

The biggest thing I'm looking for is a complete description of all entities and the properties that can be set, along with an interface that eases repetitive tasks.

I know ET:QW up until this point has had virtually no interactivity with the environment, but I'm hoping in-game "script_movers" are at least as great a step up from W:ET as that was from RTCW. I've played Q4 SP so I've seen quite a few things done with the engine, and I'm hoping it's easy to get movement for things similar to the monorails.

[reyalp]

Wander around with a dazed look on my face, most likely ;)

And then... to the code!

[Stektr33]

I've got an idea for a map that I hope to create. I'd like to 'create' some dynamic objectives which will hopefully keep ppl on their feet.

Maybe work with tr33 like we did in the past with the "Trailer Park".

right on. (text to make this post longer since i get the silly error saying that my post is too short and well, i don't agree with it.. and i think it has the perfect length.. but since i can't win against the message box, i'm typing all this in hopes that it is indeed long enough :O )

[jonny b]

It would be cool to see some old Quake Mods for ET:QW. It's been a long time since seen some good CTF action like 3Wave w/ morningstar. Sorry, q4 didn't do it for me, q3 was great for a year :)

Maybe even some porting of Q1 and Q2 maps as part of an expansion pack.

There's so much potential with this engine the possibilities are endless (I think).

What's the SP gonna look like ;)

[Stektr33]

if i mod, or even try, i'm going with wwII genre. should be fun... but that's a ton of work... think about all those models! well, one at a time, i guess.

[Kamikazee]

Maybe even some porting of Q1 and Q2 maps as part of an expansion pack.Remember to get permission before even starting...

[[]v[]]

Great question.
I'm going to load up a terrain mesh, texture it, with a few roads and then
load up a Citroen C5 I've modeled and go for a ride.
No tax, no insurance, no mot and drive it off a cliff while shouting YEEE Haaaa loudly.

Gimme megagen NOW! It's my canvas.

[]UBR[member]

yeah a WW2 based map would be fun, get some BARs and M1 garands blasting around would be awsm, i would love to help you make it Strektr33. tell me if you would like some help.

[jonny b]

Remember to get permission before even starting...

QFT. I wonder what hoops i'd have to jump through to get them to approve :). It's like you'd have to make the map, show it to them an then wait and wait and wait. If they don't like it. Change some things around and deal with the "Oh this map looks like _insert_name_here."

WWII type mod would be cool. I think almost every game other there now has a WWII mod. I'd be down to help with whatever and who ever.

[]UBR[member]

yeah we should get togethor and start on it whenever we can.

[zig-zag]

Map editor for sure. Start learning about new entities. Then script files.

[Stektr33]

UBR[member;94056']yeah a WW2 based map would be fun, get some BARs and M1 garands blasting around would be awsm, i would love to help you make it Strektr33. tell me if you would like some help.

definitely... what's your background?
i'm currently writing a server browser (c#, .net3.5, sqlce)... when i'm done with that, I will jump into modding.

[]UBR[member]

umm, i haven't really had any experiance makeing mods or building maps but would like to learn, and am known to give good ideas for new maps.... do you have x-fire?

oh, and i have a program called Unreal Ed it can teach me how to make maps, people, guns, and vehichles. i can make a example with that and then when we get SDK we can put it into the real thing. how does that sound?

oh forgot to mention that my x-fire id is bibby123

[jonny b]

you should probably add your xfire info into your profile ;)

[Kamikazee]

UBR[member;94074']oh, and i have a program called Unreal Ed it can teach me how to make maps, people, guns, and vehichles. i can make a example with that and then when we get SDK we can put it into the real thing. how does that sound?Unreal Ed is not the first thing I would recommend when you intend to map for ET:QW... Rather take a look at Doom 3, Quake 4 or Prey if you have the ability to do so.

Unreal engines use a "negative" approach for making maps (Compare it to carving a cave out of a large mountain.) whereas id engines work in a "positive" approach way. (Aka you start with nothing and add blocks, piece by piece.)

[]UBR[member]

thnx for the advise

[Stektr33]

i personally liked the q3radiant tool.. i thought it was relatively easy to learn... especially coupled with visiting the splashdamage forums regularly... you can learn a lot about the proper ways of creating brushes and scripting. i'm hoping that the d3etqw editor or whatever it will be called will be similar with q3radiant.

[]UBR[member]

yeah, i will use that if you do and if you could, would you help me learn how to do all the scripting and stuff?

[PytoX]

i personally liked the q3radiant tool.. i thought it was relatively easy to learn... especially coupled with visiting the splashdamage forums regularly... you can learn a lot about the proper ways of creating brushes and scripting. i'm hoping that the d3etqw editor or whatever it will be called will be similar with q3radiant.

It will be called Worledit as they stated in the videos about modding etqw. ;)
It will be more similar to d3radiant then q3radiant prolly. :p

[jonny b]

wils told me to use blender 3d. blender.org

[TTK-Bandit]

I will fire up Araxis Merge and compare it to the doom3 sdk, to see what changes have been done, especially to the interface, so I can see what new possibilities there are with the new sdk. If there are some new cool functions available I have been wanting for years, I will try how they work and collect as much information as I can about them.

I will probably hang a lot time on the userinterface code, since its completely in the sdk now I'm very interested how good it is now. While checking the code for changes, I will also check out the .def, .script & .gui files to see how they are used now.

I bet that takes a few days until I'm done just reading through it, but that will be loads of fun and sleepless nights :D
Then I will probably try a few smaller changes and start working on a few new gametypes.

[Nappy]

I want to become familiar with the code. I don't consider myself particularly artistic.

[Stektr33]

wils told me to use blender 3d. blender.org

i'll try blender, but i have lightwave3d, 3ds max, and maya, but blender is free :)

[jonny b]

I've been playing around with it for 2 weeks now. Finally getting the hang of it. Just started with a tut on terrain. The only thing I don't get is how to convert it to the actual map or whatever. i have been able to make some model of stuff. Its a great app, even works nicely with text. You can also view MD5 models and pose them as you wish. Its sweet. I wish I knew about it 3 years ago. Then i'd be at the same place I am with my PS:CS skills :)

I'm still pumped about the mapping/mod aspect for the game. Maybe thats what we'll use globaldefenseforce.net for :) Id still like that clan/team directory in asp.net.

[sponge]

I've got a few ideas for mini-mods, the most significant being a BaseRace re-envisioned for ET:QW expanding on some of the basic RTS aspects of ET:QW by allowing buildable walls, base defenses, etc. Capturing docs to build vehicle pads, and so on.

Baserace + MegaTexture = built for each other.

[Mach10]

1) Finish up the last bit for Rally Racing base logic, doc it and let the mappers run wild.
2) Finalize the Notepad++ plug-in.
3) ... Not letting that cat out of the bag yet

[SlippytheWeasel]

Maybe remake some ET maps for ET:QW. Like the originals. Oasis, Fueldump, etc. But larger in size.


Slippy

[MWLL|Criminal]

First things first, scale down the goliath by about 20 times. Copy, paste 31 of them, insert 31 bots, import one of our mechs, stomp all over the little critters.

[un1zo.]

I'd probably pull out my old mapping hat and make a TJ Map, see what you can do with the physics etc.

[channie]

Unreal engines use a "negative" approach for making maps (Compare it to carving a cave out of a large mountain.) whereas id engines work in a "positive" approach way. (Aka you start with nothing and add blocks, piece by piece.)

FYI, The new Unreal Engine 3 toolset allows you to use "additive" BSP blocks (as well as substractive ones).

[jonny b]

I've got a few ideas for mini-mods, the most significant being a BaseRace re-envisioned for ET:QW expanding on some of the basic RTS aspects of ET:QW by allowing buildable walls, base defenses, etc. Capturing docs to build vehicle pads, and so on.

Baserace + MegaTexture = built for each other.
I love the idea, especially now since you can make an excessivly large area with 1 large base, and small "out posts". Vehivle pads sounds sweet!

Maybe remake some ET maps for ET:QW. Like the originals. Oasis, Fueldump, etc. But larger in size.


Yeah, I had mentioned somewhere else the same idea. Except I thought merging some maps together would be cool. like Railgun & FD, Oasis & Gold Rush, maybe Battery & Radar. It would all come down to where you'd edit the maps.

http://community.enemyterritory.com/forums/showpost.php?p=94437&postcount=92

[TTK-Bandit]

oh, one of the first things I will try is probably to get ambient lighting working in quakewars so I can get better fps :D
Already did it in Quake4, so the basic knowledge is there just need to adapt a few things probably.

[jonny b]

Can you explain that a little bit? Sounds interesting. :)

[TTK-Bandit]

explain what it is or explain how to do it ?

Very basic theory: The world is always lit by multiple light sources, which have a fixed point and cast shadows on objects in the world. The more lights, the more time it needs to render the scene. Now to increase performance, all lights are removed and replaced by one single ambient light, which has no fixed position, it just lights up all textures in the world equally.
This removes the nice lighting, but it improves performance very much.

Quake4 with normal light: image (http://www.quake.de/pictures/quake4/fullsize/q4_r_forceambient_0_0.jpg)
Same shot while forcing ambient light only: image (http://www.quake.de/pictures/quake4/fullsize/q4_r_forceambient_0_4.jpg)
The shots are a little small, so it looks like you can't see much, but it isn't that bad ingame.

[jonny b]

I see! So, basically. When creating a map, it would be wise to use an ambient light source over a "fixed" light source. It cuts down on render time and increases map performace by a few FPS. That is, unless you want the map to "look" a specific way with overly dramatic lighting.

I assume you can use both, depending on what you wish to accomplish?

[sponge]

If you're doing it for the FPS boost, there are already commands that will give you a similar effect, and a similar increase in speed. They're currently cheat protected.

Generally, it won't have much of an effect outdoors. You'll get more FPS by disabling shadows, overall.

[TTK-Bandit]

its not just disabling the shadows you can disable with r_shadows & co.
if you are talking about r_singleLight, then: this is a command that even was available in doom3, but its not the same, it just disables all lights but the one you specify with this cvar, but as light numbers always differ with every map (and you don't even have the safety that there is an ambient light at all in the map), there is no way of setting this to the correct light, even if it was not cheat protected..

[jRAD]

We do natively support ambient lighting, down to a per-room basis. You set them up with the ambient light editor ("editAmbient").

[TTK-Bandit]

map specific ambient lights ? are they clientside ? (and are all other lights disabled when using the ambient lights ?)

[MoP]

We have ambient lights in all maps anyway, they are always on, and they do not disable other lights when they are on. They are used in addition to regular lights.
Quake 4's approach was more of a "fullbright" thing than natural ambient lighting.

[TTK-Bandit]

ic, thats what I expected, but I'd rather have the quake 4 approach, since that helped much more with fps.
a friend of mine, dr4ch reworked the original baseq4 maps to save some fps by adding one ambientlight, but keeping a few lights so it looks better, but the ambientlightonly option showed way better results.
don't get me wrong, this will look ugly as hell, I never liked the look in q4, but it really saved some ppl some fps and now with quakewars, it could save me some fps ^^

[Kendle]

Will you be able to tweak weapon accuracy and damage via the SDK?

[TTK-Bandit]

thats even possible without sdk, you just need to edit the .def files that are shipped with the game and put them in a new pk4 file.

[sponge]

The Q4 approach is relatively pointless since r_skipinteractions has a similar looking effect, and about an equal improvement in performance. r_skipAtmosInteractions is always good for a good 30FPS on my setup, and has the distinct advantage of not being cheat-protected.

[TTK-Bandit]

hm dunno about you, but r_skipinteractions is cheat protected on my etqw beta.
and r_skipAtmosInteractions does not take any effect on my machine.
and if r_skipinteractions is the same as in q4, then its probably not much of use anyway.
but this is kinda getting offtopic, lets get back to topic, we'll talk about this topic again when the sdk is out and I tried the changes :)

[MadJack]

Was struck by a nice map idea which became other ideas and now I'm stuck with a campaign...

First map's heightmap is done... Will doodle the structures tonight or tomorrow. Then it'll be map #2... etc.

[jonny b]

what application are you using for your maps jack?

[RR2DO2]

hm dunno about you, but r_skipinteractions is cheat protected on my etqw beta.
and r_skipAtmosInteractions does not take any effect on my machine.
and if r_skipinteractions is the same as in q4, then its probably not much of use anyway.
but this is kinda getting offtopic, lets get back to topic, we'll talk about this topic again when the sdk is out and I tried the changes :)

You don't want to use skip interactions, it turns all light interactions off.

The minspec rendering method already has a global ambient colour, which is done early on in the pipeline.

If you have experience with any q4 modding 'performance optimisations', forget about most of them for ETQW. The renderer is quite differently in how it works. The rendering principle with stencil shadows is similar, but what is done in all the passes and how it is done is entirely different.

- Arnout

[PointlesS]

first thing?

probably make my first room...then connect it to one room and another room...and add terrain...then make a hello world script :p

a little new to doom 3 engined games and id engines in general (unreal person here) but it shouldn't take me that long to get it

I always had this level idea about strogg attacking cities and kinda having a battle in a city...with a few mental pictures of some parts and how they'll look...I remember seeing screenshots of something like that and it looked pretty neat...but recently haven't seen anything about it...I hope that level is still in

[MadJack]

what application are you using for your maps jack?

For mapping I use Radiant 1.4 but for heightmaps I'm trying different programs. Haven't found one I'm particularly fond of, though I have some preferences.

For heightmaps I'm currently trying those:

Earth Sculptor (http://www.EarthSculptor.com)
World Machine (http://www.world-machine.com)
L3DT 2.5 Standard (http://www.bundysoft.com/L3DT/)
Blender (http://www.blender.org)
Bryce 5.5 (http://www.daz3d.com/i.x/software/bryce/)

Earth Sculptor is great for tweaking an already existing heightmap.
World machine I just started using. Somewhat of a learning curve...

The rest is pretty standard apps.

[Kendle]

thats even possible without sdk, you just need to edit the .def files that are shipped with the game and put them in a new pk4 file.

Is there a tool for editing / saving .PK4 files? (or will the SDK enable that?)

[Kamikazee]

Is there a tool for editing / saving .PK4 files? (or will the SDK enable that?)PK4 files are still regular zip archives. Use any tool you want, and pakscape might even work. (At least if it's file types don't default to pk3.)

[LaVaGoD]

I'm curious. What will be the first thing that you think you'll do once the ET:QW SDK is out?

Remake DuckyHunt!

[Mike]

hm dunno about you, but r_skipinteractions is cheat protected on my etqw beta.
and r_skipAtmosInteractions does not take any effect on my machine.
and if r_skipinteractions is the same as in q4, then its probably not much of use anyway.
but this is kinda getting offtopic, lets get back to topic, we'll talk about this topic again when the sdk is out and I tried the changes :)

r_skipAtmosInteractions as the name suggests skips the interaction batches associated with the atmosphere light. More importantly r_megaDrawMethod 3 uses a different render path, hence you'll only see the difference with method 0.

[TTK-Bandit]

thx, tried it, but I do not like the other mega draw methods, they look like they add battlefield like fog.
will try it later with a few more players online though to see how much fps I can get by it, just tried it alone.

[Hakuryu]

Gonna fire up the map editor, drop in a test terrain from Maya, a couple of buildings from D3, some entities and then play my first map! :)

[={PHA}=RiFFLeR]

What will i do with the SDK?

Well, i will install the editor and engage a conversation with it :

How the hell do you work b**tch? :p

:dance:

[Tex]

I will skip merrily through the fields of code, dropping breakpoints far and wide while giggling like a young child.

[moonshield]

I think, i will do a sandbox gamemode and play around with vehicles :). And I'll try out that reference mapping stuff and build a city^^.

[jonny b]

Is that where you should start in the first place, with a sand box ;)

[TTK-Bandit]

jRAD, what was the first thing you did on the doom3/new quakewars engine code ?

[jRAD]

jRAD, what was the first thing you did on the doom3/new quakewars engine code ?

I started ripping all of the tools out of the engine and moving them into DLLs. It took around a month to get everything completely sorted out and stabilized.

[Airon]

I'll look over all the sound stuff(entities, code, configs).

Then scripting, then mapping.

[Sebultura]

I'm curious. What will be the first thing that you think you'll do once the ET:QW SDK is out? Fire up the editor? Take a dive into the code (where do you think you'd start)? Tweak around an atmosphere? Hack some defs? Juggle some scripts?

What kind of experience are you looking forward to "out of the box"?

Open the project, see how weapons are done (Doom 3's style w/ SDK core code & scripts for weapons, or Quake 4's style, almost all hardcoded in SDK...), same thing with AI (well, bots in that case if code isn't private to the engine).

Then play with all this & see for possible unanounced mod yet (nothing sure yet).

[Gazz]

The first thing I'll do is crack open the level editor and start playing with things, just to get the new additions to the tools down, then move on to working on a new map for the game.

I'm pretty certain the map I start to create will not be finished at all, but it will help with learning how to mess with the new abilities between the base doom 3 engine and ETQW engine.

Finally roughly a month after the SDK release I will start a new mod project, I have a good idea but do not want to announce anything yet as it is too early.

[hellokeith]

I'm curious. What will be the first thing that you think you'll do once the ET:QW SDK is out? Fire up the editor? Take a dive into the code (where do you think you'd start)? Tweak around an atmosphere? Hack some defs? Juggle some scripts?

What kind of experience are you looking forward to "out of the box"?

My interests are on the AI/SP/COOP side of things. What is required to modify bots? What is required to setup a custom map for bots? How is the pathfinding generated? How is weapon and vehicle ai setup? etc.

I've been trying to find a contact with the 2 id guys working in this area but so far no joy.

[Kamikazee]

How is the pathfinding generated?
I'd guess some new form of AAS which handles terrains better.

[hellomoto]

I'm curious. What will be the first thing that you think you'll do once the ET:QW SDK is out?

Fix the horribly counter-intuitive vehicle controls.

[CannonFodder1.0]

I'm curious. What will be the first thing that you think you'll do once the ET:QW SDK is out? Fire up the editor? Take a dive into the code (where do you think you'd start)? Tweak around an atmosphere? Hack some defs? Juggle some scripts?

What kind of experience are you looking forward to "out of the box"?

Dig all through that code <munch munch munch> - it has 8 essential vitamins and minerals!

As long as the code/scripts have extra spicy inline comments - and plenty of them - I'm good to go. This network engineers' top priority would be a *sensible* build system. But I can hack it if need be. I'm hoping to get ET:QW and Eclipse CDT to join in an unholy union of cross-platform goodness.

[igl]

How to paint the megatexture and place a vehicle :)

[LaVaGoD]

Fix the horribly counter-intuitive vehicle controls.

Did you play Beta2?

[hellomoto]

Did you play Beta2?

yes. i made that post after.

[modelworks]

If you want a really easy to use and free 3d modeler look at wings3d.
You can get it at www.wings3d.com.
Its a whole lot easier to use than blender.

I'll probably spend a few days just making simple stuff in the editor to get a real feel for how the sdk works. Start small then complicate stuff :)




If someone needs help with a project send me a message.
I'm looking to join up for a project that is hopefully well organized.
I have done 3d for almost 15 years and know 3dsmax, texturing, uv's very well.

[cptincognito]

I'll probably:
*read the docs
*diff the src with the d3 sdk to see what's new
*render a few test megatextures
*try to import some 3d files into world builder, check out the new grouping tools and entities
*see what's new in md5 v11
*explore the ambient lighting system

[hannes]

working on a mod for the moviemakers out there!

[TTK-Bandit]

you too ?
we could maybe join forces there..

[ensiform]

What's the SP gonna look like ;)

This game does not have a Single Player. Only offline play with AI or over lan and online.

[mortis]

I'll be too busy mangling the mapscripts to pay any attention to the SDK!

[JBRAA]

I've never used a Software Developer Kit before, but I think I will open it when released and see if I can learn to use it, and perhaps try to find where/how to mod the cone of fire into a smaller one.

[*Slayer_2]

That depends will there be Linux support for the map editor or will we have to screw around with GTK radiant? :( I will probably make a space map which will basicly be a big Strogg warship fighting a crude GDF attempt at a space destroyer. The Strogg ships core will have about will have about 10,000 health while the GDF ships reactor will only have 3000 health. But the GDF will start with an easy way into the strogg ship while the stroggs will have to blast their way in. Also I want to make a level like BF2 with an aircraft carrier (slightly futuristic of course) and the Strogg have to defend a downed strogg transport carrying high tech dark matter weapons and technology as well as a captured GDF outpost.
*Slayer_2

[RedFox]

I want to see if it is possible to create a mod where the player is able to add stuff to the map, like the Tribes 2 Construction mod.

[RotzKotz_ere]

The (map)editor of course!
That's also were I'll stick some time before I hope I will do and import some models and/or take a look at the code ;P

[murka10]

maybe its a good time to start learning something, so ill read through the huge lines of code and hope to have learned something.... then ofcourse make a dark map of stroggos.

[annerajb]

i will start looking at the sdk coding part and see how far can i modify the engine to handle my wishings (jiggles)no really i have so much ideas for this game i really wish i could code all the things i have planned for it.
oh btw about the demo cheat thing you need to put this command on the console
net_allowCheats 1
that will work in sp and in mp when the server admin inputs it there are a lot of commands in there i have a dump of all the commadns and cvar and what cool things you can do with them :D

[sponge]

i have a dump of all the commadns and cvar and what cool things you can do with them :D

It's probably worth nothing for anyone else reading this that you can use 'htmlcvars' to dump out all the variables yourself into a fancy formatted HTML file. You can use listcvars, and then *word* to find a cvar that has the word 'word' anywhere within it, term* for variables starting with the word 'term', etc.