Regarding Terrains

[MWLL|Death_Grin]

Greetings,I have a few questions aimed primarily at the devs.

Is there a particular pipeline that you found efficent or best when creating your maps?

Is your terrain created from scrach in 3d modeling software (maya/max) or did you use any 3rd party programs (terragen/worldcreator/vue etc.) Or even in conjunction with a modeling program 'ala dreamscape.

I've seen all kinds of numbers floating around for vehicle and player poly counts but what is your average polycount for terrain? Or what range of polies for terrain do you consider suitable for YOUR levels (assuming no LOD or fog..just the straight high res mesh)

Can you tell me how may polies the mesh for "Valley" is? :D

Thanks!

[jonny b]

A SD designer mentioned they use Blender 3d for many things. However, theres atleast 5 other applications that are out there that people use for the same effect. He also said that some of the terrain they created is from scratch.

The rest someone else will have to answer.

[jRAD]

A SD designer mentioned they use Blender 3d for many things. However, theres atleast 5 other applications that are out there that people use for the same effect. He also said that some of the terrain they created is from scratch.

The rest someone else will have to answer.

Just to clarify, we suggested people use Blender, since it's a nice free modelling package. We use Maya and Lightwave to edit our terrains here.

[jonny b]

ORLY!? Time to dust of Maya and Lightwave. :)

[MoP]

Our in-game terrain meshes are between 20,000 and 35,000 triangles on average.

A good way to begin a realistic terrain is with a heightmap - we generate ours with World Machine (free version is available, although limited to 512x512 heightmap output, this is more than enough to make a good start on a terrain).

World Machine also outputs mask images which can be used in our Megatexture editor to create natural sediment flows and realistic rock placement etc.

Get it here: http://www.world-machine.com/

Once you have saved a heightmap from World Machine, you can import it into your modelling package and apply it as a displacement to a subdivided plane, to get the basis of a terrain mesh (methods for doing this varies per package).

Then you can either just export that straight out, or optimise it and model more unique and specific mesh detail onto it by hand.

[jonny b]

sounds well worth it for $40.

[MoP]

If you want to buy it, feel free, it's a great program for realistic heightmapped terrain generation. However, like I said, you can get perfectly acceptable results (especially for modding and personal work) just from using the Free version - probably a good idea trying that out first and seeing how you like it rather than buying first and then finding out you don't use any of the extra features :)

[marmil]

Our in-game terrain meshes are between 20,000 and 35,000 triangles on average.

A good way to begin a realistic terrain is with a heightmap - we generate ours with World Machine (free version is available, although limited to 512x512 heightmap output, this is more than enough to make a good start on a terrain).
...


Nice! I've been playing with the free version of WM for several months now. I really love WM's node based interface and all the stuff you can do with masks. Glad to hear you guys like it--I will definitely keep going with it! :D

And thanks for the triangle count range for terrain meshes. Time to optimize!

[MoP]

Well, you can go higher than those counts if you really want to. Ours were optimised for best performance on the maximum range of hardware - you could easily make a 40,000 - 50,000 triangle terrain if you wanted, but the higher you go, the longer the compile times, and faster the PC you'll need to run it smoothly at full quality.
That said, 25-35k triangles is quite plenty to do a large, good-looking terrain. :)

[[]v[]]

Would it be possible to create structures and incorporate them into the terrain mesh and tell megagen to apply a concrete texture to a vertical suface. And then add some detail to it. If so, would this have any negative effect.

[MoP]

You can incorporate any meshes you want into a terrain mesh (it's just a model after all), but it's not a good idea to try and make a full building on the Megatexture (interiors probably wouldn't work at all since it samples the detail levels based on the player's location in a 2D plane).

The more vertical surfaces you have in your terrain mesh, the more UV stretching you're going to get - Megatextures work best with unique, contiguous organic UVs, so the more vertical height changes you have, the more you're going to have to "relax" the UVs to get an even pixel coverage. I think entirely vertical man-made walls are best left as brushwork or separate, tiling-textured models for ET:QW.

I would recommend only including natural and organic shapes into the Megatexture, like boulders, cliffs, sand dunes, snow drifts, rock spires etc. This is what the ETQW Megatexture technology is best suited to, and designed for.

However, don't let me stop you experimenting with crazy techniques once the SDK is released! I've seen some really awesome stuff done purely because someone tried some fresh lateral thinking and worked around whatever toolset limitations there may be. :)

[gareth]

blenders sculpt tool is awesome. blender is usually really hard to use but it sculpting is so easy and fun. 250k tris but i think theres an optimise button somewhere. :D

[jonny b]

How the heck did you do that. Im so lost when it comes to all this importing and what not. I've got blender, I've got WM. All i can make is this, by hand.

BTW, that looks like dental impressions. :)

here's what I want to create, not all of it, just about 1/4 of the image.
https://www.cheyennemountain.af.mil/Cool-Pics/CMAFSPhotos/Mountain02.jpg

[MoP]

gareth: Cool, yeah, sculpting tools like that are perfect for making a terrain. Our workflow is usually to sculpt out the overall shapes (to define routes between hills, main roads, flat areas etc.), then export this as a heightmap, go over it with Erosion filters in World Machine, then export the resulting heightmap back out, use it to displace a subdivided plane, then optimise that down to a low-poly triangulated mesh.

Jonny B: World Machine is perfect for creating hills and landscapes like the picture you linked. Experiment with the Perlin Noise and Erosion nodes - when you first open WM it gives you a default layout of Noise -> Terrace -> File Output ... try dropping an Erosion node in there between the Terrace and the File Output nodes, make sure it's connected up properly and then double-click it to set its properties - try flicking through the "Presets" drop-down and you'll probably find a good one to generate realistic natural shapes in there. Or just play with the sliders in the Erosion node until it looks cool :)

[MWLL|Death_Grin]

Thanks for the responses guys.

Heres what I've been working on terrain wise. This is achieved using a combination of Geocontrol2 and 3ds max with the dreamscape plugin. Then further editing the mesh by hand in 3ds max.

Environment: Desert canyon w/ dry river bed
Polycount: Currently just under 40,ooo ploys. Lots of optomization and work still ahead

Note- the white blob is a 'mech (Catapault to be exact) for scale purposes. (well, where a mech mod! duh)

And dont mind the lower left corner, its a developing thing..

[MoP]

Nice! You've got a good start here :)

[[]v[]]

I've got a few ready for when the editer is released.
I put this one through terragen. I use Wilbur atm to convert to .obj
http://quakewarsmapping.blogspot.com/2007/06/terrain-mesh-preview.html
And yes it's a bit big, I'll only be using a small section of this.

[marmil]

I haven't tried using the World Machine generated height map to displace a subdivided plane. What I was doing was exporting a .ter (Terragen) file from WM from the File Out node and then using the program Wilbur simply as a converter--just opening the .ter file and then exporting it as an .obj (Wavefront) file. And then directly opening the .obj file with the 3D package. (The ET:QW editor could directly import an .obj too, right? Like good for a quick test?)

When I did this test (see attachments below) and opened the .obj file in the 3D editor it had 32k triangles so I was happy about that. Here's one of my tests-- it needs to be smoothed in some places, and certainly could be optimized in locations, but I was happy with the quick start. (Ignore the spikes at the corners-- those are just there temporary for a height reference.)

So what might be some of the advantages of using the WM height map to displace a subdivided plane VS. doing a height map conversion to .obj and directly importing?

ps. Wilbur (http://www.ridgecrest.ca.us/~jslayton/software.html) - another cool little FREE package. :)
-edit- Haha, []v[] beat me to mentioning Wilbur. :p
pps. The erode node in WM is awesome!

[MoP]

marmil: Well, I haven't used Wilbur myself, but it looks like it's just doing the same thing as displacing a subdivided plane - that's pretty much the only way you can make a heightmap into useable triangle geometry :)

And yes, you can import .OBJ directly into the editor, so you should be able to do a quick test.

This is cool stuff that you're posting in here guys, it's awesome to see that you're getting started so early and mastering the tools ... keep it up! :)

[MadJack]

I'm checking out WM as we speak... Not the most intuitive package but looks like it'll be able to do the job. Though it might get pretty tough to imitate a real location.

We'll see what will happen after a couple of tuts.

[marmil]

I'm checking out WM as we speak... Not the most intuitive package but looks like it'll be able to do the job. Though it might get pretty tough to imitate a real location.

We'll see what will happen after a couple of tuts.

[]v[] made a little tutorial here about using real world data.
http://quakewarsmapping.blogspot.com/2007/07/google-maps-to-terrain-mesh.html
"Google Maps to Terrain Mesh
This tutorial will show you how to select a section of terrain from Google Earth and convert it into a usable terrain mesh for further adjustments within a modeling package such as Maya and then for inclusion into a Quake Wars level."

There are also many other tutorials out there if you search around some. Check the forums at some of the sites for terrain generator programs. From my browsing of the World Machine forums it seemed like some of the users there were rather into recreating real Earth locations or realistic terraforms.

[jonny b]

what editor do you guys use to import these maps? I tried using blender but it doesn't support the files from say WM.

[marmil]

what editor do you guys use to import these maps? I tried using blender but it doesn't support the files from say WM.

Blender should be able to use the data exported from WM (or any heightfield generator) to do displacement, but I don't imagine it could directly open a heightfield. Realize that all the various file types that WM exports are not geometry files, but are heightfields, also called heightmaps (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Height_map). In my experience 3D programs don't directly open these, but instead can use them to displace a surface, which from what MoP said, sound like how SD has been using them. In my case I've been using Wilbur to basically convert a heightfield to a 3D mesh (which a 3D program can directly open, Maya in my case) instead of doing displacement. But there may be advantages that I'm not aware of such as being able to do some sort of fine tuning to the displacement and resulting displaced mesh by using the displacement method from within a 3D program. I guess one obvious advantage is one less step/program to go through since it's all done in the 3D program.

[marmil]

I noticed in the images in Death_Grin's post above that he has terrain formations that overhang themselves. I'm wondering if this sort of surface will work with the magatexture system, or if something like the bulbous (larger at the top then in middle) rock formations he has would need to have a separate group of brushes or piece of geometry in the top area?

[MWLL|Death_Grin]

as far as I understand it overhangs will have to be modeled seperatly because of the texture streching when a polygon is verticle. I intend to actually cut these sections out and use them to make prop terrain objects. The only thing is you have to make sure to match the obj texture with the megatexture exactly or it will look funny. I believe SD did this with a certain overhang near the GDF outpost on "Valley"

[MWLL|Criminal]

I've talked to Death_Grin a few times about this and it can go either way. A Terrain model is no different from any other model except for the fact that it's huge. The megatexture is no different from any other texture since it uses the pre-defined U and V coordinates of the terrains mesh.

When is model is create as a polygonal mesh U and V coordinates are generated for all the faces of that particular model.
Using the projection of the unit spacevector onto the xy-plane formula 3d coordinates X,Y and Z are converted into 2d dimensional space.

*************warning mathematical content follows look away if math makes you gag****************

http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/Criminal/uformula
http://www.mechlivinglegends.net/Criminal/vformula

Now there are a myriad of techniques used for generating these coordinates for all types of model be it for character models, weapon models etc.. the same could theoritically be done for terrain. The inherent problem with this method though is the unwanted stretching and creasing that invariably has to be manually adjusted when using anything other than a planar map. It would take signficantly longer to uv map and entire terrain mesh manually editing all the overhangs and angles > 70-80 degrees rather than just simple using a planar map and seperately modeling the overhangs.

As I've Death_Grin and I have discussed it and we actually are going to attempt the longer more tedious way first just to prove it can be done. If the quality isn't there however we will end up creating overhangs as seperate meshes in themselves.

[MoP]

It's fine to have overhangs in a terrain mesh (although obviously you can't create overhangs from a heightmap alone, so you'd have to manually model them into the mesh after converting from a heightmap, if you're using that technique).

However as MWLL|Criminal touched on, the more overhangs you have, the more texture distortion you're going to have to worry about - the flatter a surface is, the easier it will be to unwrap.

As for the Valley terrain mesh, the overhanging rocks near the GDF base are all in the terrain mesh and they are Megatextured, they're not separate objects.

If you wanted to do something like a free-standing rock arch, you'd probably have to do that as a separate mesh since I don't think it would be easy to UVW-map that sort of shape and still have it work nicely with the surrounding terrain UVWs. Extremely vertical "spires" of rock are also something that might be better to have as separate static objects, since large vertical shapes mean more UVW distortion on the Megatexture.

The overhangs shown in the previous image attachments, though, would be ok to Megatexture, if you're good with UVW mapping and relaxing the UVs properly. :)

[Hakuryu]

Haven't done much work on the terrain yet, but have most of the buildngs at least 1/2 way done in the D3 editor - Alcatraz.

Maya terrain, started with a generic hand drawn heightmap, have all general areas layed out, but not much detail work done yet... want to make sure the sizes are good when I can actually drive around on my terrain.

@MoP - I noticed on the few cheat servers I could find that when I run r_showtris, it seems like the outside (out of bounds) of most maps are low tesselation, but in the middle it seems like that whole area was just further subdivided. Is that common to flesh out a large map, then simply subdivide the center for more detail? Instead of manually cutting faces where needed, just increase all the tesselation in the middle of the map?

[MWLL|Death_Grin]

Hey thats pretty cool! Really fun idea too. Can't wait to play! Is this vanilla ETQW or for a mod?

Its a bit small for a play space, imo. Will one of the teams spawn elsewhere and fly/boat in?

*edit actually I take that back..looking at it again and using the buildings for comparison its not that small of a area.

[Hakuryu]

Hey thats pretty cool! Really fun idea too. Can't wait to play! Is this vanilla ETQW or for a mod?

Its a bit small for a play space, imo. Will one of the teams spawn elsewhere and fly/boat in?

*edit actually I take that back..looking at it again and using the buildings for comparison its not that small of a area.

Just for regular ETQW.

It's actually bigger than it looks, but working off something real and planning objectives/flow is harder than planning a map with those things in mind. I have to fit the gameplay to the existing terrain/geometry instead of crafting the gameplay through those items. I've run through numerous idea's of having the GDF start off the island, etc... but I think eventually it will be mostly infantry based with light vehicles.

The biggest thing I wanted to get out of making this is a good working familiarty with brushwork/patches/etc... and so far I'm lightyears ahead of my previous knowledge of Doom based mapping. All the buildings are Doom edit exported OBJ's, and although you can see a little detail, they look much better in the D3 editor with some textures and lighting.

[MoP]

Hakuryu: Cool start on that map, you're ahead of the field I think :)

Our terrains started off as sculpted subdivided planes in Maya (using the deform sculpt brushes - just basically push/pull points and polys up and down on a plane with 128 length and width segments). So in that sense the meshes all start off the same density.

With our workflow, though, we take these meshes into World Machine as heightmaps, then generate new high-poly terrain meshes with the resulting "eroded" heightmap, and then optimise these down in Lightwave (LW has a plugin called qemLOSS, which can optimise to arbitrary levels using a greyscale image as a mask for where to preserve most detail) - in that way we masked the optimisation to preserve more polys in the most detailed and player-frequented areas, while the outer areas get less poly detail because you don't see them as often.

Most of the really distant terrain meshes were made by hand and manually added to the outside of the main terrain mesh, as a result they are much lower poly since you can't actually get to them unless you're in god mode. :)

Most of this stuff is fairly unnecessary for a modder though, unless you're really hardcore about where your terrain polys are spent, and if you want to spend more time on it. It's not absolutely necessary to do it the same way we did, although I guess it's good to know :)

[Hakuryu]

With our workflow, though, we take these meshes into World Machine as heightmaps, then generate new high-poly terrain meshes with the resulting "eroded" heightmap, and then optimise these down in Lightwave (LW has a plugin called qemLOSS, which can optimise to arbitrary levels using a greyscale image as a mask for where to preserve most detail) - in that way we masked the optimisation to preserve more polys in the most detailed and player-frequented areas, while the outer areas get less poly detail because you don't see them as often.

That explains alot, thanks. I was under the impression you guys didn't use heightmaps at all from a SD board post. I used a quick heightmap import into Maya for a start, then did some sculpting and vertex editing. Vertex editing is slow...especially once you start increasing tesselation... I have to look into the programs you mentioned.


Most of the really distant terrain meshes were made by hand and manually added to the outside of the main terrain mesh, as a result they are much lower poly since you can't actually get to them unless you're in god mode. :)


So there is more than one terrain mesh and megatexture for a map? I have been wondering about that since it doesn't look tiled most of the time. I take it this means it's possible to have a huge map by creating multiple terrain meshes and megatextures?

[Kamikazee]

With our workflow, though, we take these meshes into World Machine as heightmaps, then generate new high-poly terrain meshes with the resulting "eroded" heightmap, and then optimise these down in Lightwave (LW has a plugin called qemLOSS, which can optimise to arbitrary levels using a greyscale image as a mask for where to preserve most detail) - in that way we masked the optimisation to preserve more polys in the most detailed and player-frequented areas, while the outer areas get less poly detail because you don't see them as often.
Slightly off-topic, what version of Lightwave do you guys use? (Or in this case, which version of qemLOSS?)

[MoP]

Hakuryu: No, only one Megatexture per map. You could theoretically have a bunch of different terrain meshes all using texture coordinates on the same Megatexture, but in that case you might as well make the terrains one huge single mesh.
Our "out of bounds" low-poly terrain meshes are separate models so they can be processed differently from the main terrain by the engine, for performance reasons. Those "out of bounds" meshes just use the same Megatexture as the main terrain mesh.

Kamikazee: Lightwave 8 with qemLOSS 3, I believe.

[Kamikazee]

Hmmm... Interesting. So you can have multiple materials using the same MT (just like re-using the same .tga file) but you can only load one .mega file?

(This would also explain General.Jung's earlier remark about the weird texture shifts happening at border where the normal terrain mesh runs into the bounds mesh.)

[MoP]

Same material, same MT. As far as I know, our incarnation of the engine can only load a single .mega (of whatever size) per map.

[Catbox]

Bryce makes some really cool terrains... and the 5.5 version is free
you can save as a .3ds or .obj

http://www.download.com/Bryce/3000-6677_4-10696717.html

heres one i made for a mod thats pretty flat... but you can make any type of mountain or islands
http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b90/catbox777/dkhead.jpg

[[]v[]]

Hakuryu: No, only one Megatexture per map. You could theoretically have a bunch of different terrain meshes all using texture coordinates on the same Megatexture, but in that case you might as well make the terrains one huge single mesh.
Our "out of bounds" low-poly terrain meshes are separate models so they can be processed differently from the main terrain by the engine, for performance reasons. Those "out of bounds" meshes just use the same Megatexture as the main terrain mesh.

Can these meshes be place under an existing mesh i.e. as a cave?

[Kamikazee]

v[];104763']Can these meshes be place under an existing mesh i.e. as a cave?
I can't see why not. After all, the caves would be just another model.

[channie]

I can't see why not. After all, the caves would be just another model.

Totally. iirc, the valley tunnel is a separate mesh which has been placed on top of the terrain, so the opposite should be possible as long as you add 'holes' on your terrain mesh.

EDIT: but i think they must be textured separately since i dont think you can use the Megatexture layer on two surfaces which share the same xy coordinates.

[[]v[]]

Yes thats the big question, 1MT, 2 or 3 meshes on top of one another all using MT. Otherwise I would have to blend some terrain/rock/cave floor textures some other way, which would not be as easy as this.

[sponge]

v[];105149']Yes thats the big question, 1MT, 2 or 3 meshes on top of one another all using MT. Otherwise I would have to blend some terrain/rock/cave floor textures some other way, which would not be as easy as this.

You can't have multiple megatextures. However, you could cut holes in the terrain mesh to do tunnels into.

[MoP]

Theoretically you could map it onto the MegaTexture. However it would mean some fairly hefty UV-map trickery, since the MegaTexture "detail level" tiles are streamed in based on 2d space (just horizontal plane, no vertical calculating) relative to the player.
ie. if you textured your caves and put the UVs somewhere very far from the surrounding geometry, you might find that the detail level tiles fade in at the wrong times, or don't load at all.
Like I say though, it'd be worth trying. Not something we've done, mainly because it's easier to make stuff like that as a separate mesh (you can blend textures just like you could in Doom3/Quake4 using vertexcolour, so it's still possible to make stuff the "old" way).

[[]v[]]

Thanks for the answer, i see what you mean about the detail level problem.
I could possibly create MT for the cave area near to where it is actually in the map possibly where there is no standard MT just buildings. I'll understand more when I get hold of the editors. Sounds like it's possible.

@sponge
I'm talking about one MT, created over say three meshes, then moving two of those meshes into position as a cave. Top and bottom.

[modelworks]

Bryce would be my choice.
It has some of the best terrain tools.

I work in 3d and have used mostly bryce for terrain.
Before bryce I just used photoshop .
I remember doing heightmaps and terrain for total annihilation.
oh so long ago :)

[TheBladeRoden]

I feel like a professional already! (no he doesn't really)

Is there a quick process for exporting the surrounding terrain in the explorer view at a lower resolution?

[Hoffa]

Hey, just more info regarding Megatextures and Vertical cliffs and Overhangs.
The main problem these geological features produce is for the megatexture to step to the next lower resolution stage, making it look more blurry.
The reason for this is the megatexture works by a layering of texture steps, where the lower layers cover more area for the same texture size, meaning the layer is lower res for the area covered. As a cliff (or overhang) uses up more uv space than if it were flat, the next megatexture resolution step will appear closer to the player.
But that's not to say don't use them, as without cliffs and terrain features what's the point of having a megatexture :D

For more info on where world machine is headed, here's the development blog for World Machine Pro (a lot of handy new tools, including mesh export):
http://world-machine.com/blog/

In regards to using qemLOSS to poly reduce, once you've reduced the mesh to around 32K polys, subdivide (with smoothing) and run it through qemLOSS again, but without a reduction mask (just gives a smoother final mesh). The latest qemLOSS can be found here:
http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/lw/qemloss3.html

[PytoX]

Bryce would be my choice.
It has some of the best terrain tools.

I work in 3d and have used mostly bryce for terrain.
Before bryce I just used photoshop .
I remember doing heightmaps and terrain for total annihilation.
oh so long ago :)

Bryce is indeed nice stuff,
only my textures look a bit strange in max :D :rolleyes:

[Hakuryu]

I've been working in Maya for about a week now, trying out multiple terrain meshes, as MoP mentioned the out of bounds terrain are other meshes than the main. This multiple mesh terrain setup really can add some extra work to the process... to the tune of 9 terrain meshes (center plus 1 mesh in every direction and diagonal) per map in the worst case. Of course if you don't care if your players can see the edge of the map, then only 1 mesh is fine, but I'd rather add these outside meshes as an immersive factor.

Ideally, I think you could start off with a larger heightmap that covers all your meshes, and then divide that up into seperate mesh heightmaps. The only other thing I can think of is creating the main mesh, sampling every vertice on the edge to match the oob meshes vertices to (which can be 128*12 vertices to manually match- ugh), then manually sculpt the terrain past the vertice meeting point. Alot more work than creating just one mesh in any case.

The most important thing I've learned from doing this is to plan your map out ahead of time. You can seriously cut down on extra meshes by just planning things well. At the NW corner of a land map, simply make a high mountain flowing north and south from that point and you remove the need for the W, NW, and N oob meshes. An island is an obvious perfect example of cutting down on meshes - only need one mesh since the oob area is under water and unseen... glad I started on an Alcatraz map :p

[MoP]

Something worth considering for the Out-Of-Bounds (referred to as OOB) meshes is that you can just copy your main low-poly terrain mesh and flip/mirror it around to make a base mesh for the surrounding mountains. That way you can ensure that all the edge points line up perfectly (since it's a flipped copy, offset 32,768 units in the relevant direction), and that will line up all the UVW coordinates at the edges too. Then you can just do whatever you like with the polys and verts which aren't directly adjoining the main mesh.

Personally I'd leave those meshes till a "near-final" step, since any changes you make to the borders of your main terrain mesh will need to be reflected in the Out-Of-Bounds meshes. Since you have to use the same MegaTexture on them anyway, there's not much point planning a unique heightfield since the details might not match up - instead it's better to hack around the UVW maps of the OOB meshes until it looks nice (ie. just pick areas of the main MegaTexture that will work well as a mountain in the distance, and move the relevant UVs on your OOB meshes over that area).

Am I making sense? It's late :)

[marmil]

For more info on where world machine is headed, here's the development blog for World Machine Pro (a lot of handy new tools, including mesh export):
http://world-machine.com/blog/

In regards to using qemLOSS to poly reduce, once you've reduced the mesh to around 32K polys, subdivide (with smoothing) and run it through qemLOSS again, but without a reduction mask (just gives a smoother final mesh). The latest qemLOSS can be found here:
http://amber.rc.arizona.edu/lw/qemloss3.html

I'm looking forward to next release of WM. Sounds like a bunch of good new stuff. Some time back I sent the author about a dozen ideas/comments on the software and he said half of them are already implemented. :)

Question about qemLOSS-- Does anyone know if there is there a similar sort of plug-in or mel script for Maya? (I'm not always happy with Maya's Polygons > Reduce tool.)



Something worth considering for the Out-Of-Bounds (referred to as OOB) meshes is that you can just copy your main low-poly terrain mesh and flip/mirror it around ....
...

Am I making sense? It's late :)

Yes you are. I had been wondering about that. Thanks for the info!

[Lifeh]

A more basic (noobish :o ) question regarding terrain creation; When is the terrain adjusted for placement of buildings and other structures? In Radiant I would just remove the terrain brushes to make room for buildings and then adjust the surrounding brushes to make it look nice.

But when the terrain is a model I guess this work must be done earlier in the workflow?

Do we flatten the heightmap (or mesh?) in the areas where buildings should be placed? Cut holes for the buildings in the terrain in the modeling program?

[MoP]

Lifeh: You can do any of those things.
Cutting holes in the terrain mesh makes sense for buildings that you want to sink into the terrain (like a house with a cellar/basement for example).
Similarly, flattening the terrain mesh would work fine for a building which has no underground areas, or a building placed in a man-made area (like a parking lot) - you can just place the building flush with the terrain in that case.
You don't even have to flatten the terrain mesh if you want a building in a more natural surrounding, just build a bigger brush below the building (alliteration!) and leave it clipping through the terrain mesh as necessary.

You will always need to cut holes in the terrain mesh for any buildings or features (such as caves or tunnels) which need to go "underground".

Our map editor can handily export brushwork selections as .OBJ files which you can then import into your modelling package to see exactly where the building is placed relative to the terrain. You can then snap terrain verts to the edges of the brushwork, etc. :)

Cheers,
-MoP

[Hakuryu]

Our map editor can handily export brushwork selections as .OBJ files which you can then import into your modelling package to see exactly where the building is placed relative to the terrain. You can then snap terrain verts to the edges of the brushwork, etc. :)

Cheers,
-MoP

Thats what I do with the Doom 3 editor... very handy.

[III_Demon]

scuse me while i ressurect this thread, i have a relevant question, that i havent seen answered... sorry if i missed it somewhere...

can you make non-square maps and/or megatextures? all the current maps seem to be 32k x 32k. could i make a map thats 24k x 48k, which would use about the same surface area, but get me a longer, thinner layout?

[Pissed-Gerbil]

If you want to buy it, feel free, it's a great program for realistic heightmapped terrain generation. However, like I said, you can get perfectly acceptable results (especially for modding and personal work) just from using the Free version - probably a good idea trying that out first and seeing how you like it rather than buying first and then finding out you don't use any of the extra features :)

And if you don't :D hehe

[Warhead]

They way you create terrains seem very cool and intuitive. Finally, I can use 3DS Max to create the terrain instead of having to learn a editor just to do it.

I have a question, when creating the water for the level, is it all on one plane like an ocean or can we have water on different levels to create rivers down slopes or even waterfalls?

[III_Demon]

Question about qemLOSS-- Does anyone know if there is there a similar sort of plug-in or mel script for Maya? (I'm not always happy with Maya's Polygons > Reduce tool.)

http://www.pojar.net/ProgressiveMesh/

that one does the same sort of thing, with painted masking for maintaining detail areas... donno if it'll work with the latest version of maya, i havent used it myself yet. i do agree the built in maya poly reduction is pretty weak stuff.

[GorkerMorker]

I'm really impressed by the support you SD guys put in here. Kudos for that! I just can't figure out completely how, or even if it is possible to import my own (greyscale) heightfield maps into the editor.

[marmil]

http://www.pojar.net/ProgressiveMesh/

that one does the same sort of thing, with painted masking for maintaining detail areas... donno if it'll work with the latest version of maya, i havent used it myself yet. i do agree the built in maya poly reduction is pretty weak stuff.

Thanks for posting that III_Demon. That looks pretty good. Unfortunately it looks like the last build was for Maya 7.0 though. (I tried it out in 8.0 but couldn't get it to work.) In the Readme there's some info about how to build/compile the plugin but that's beyond my skills.

[Kamikazee]

I have a question, when creating the water for the level, is it all on one plane like an ocean or can we have water on different levels to create rivers down slopes or even waterfalls?AFAIK, everything is a model or a "brush", so water is just another brush you can drag out wherever you want it to be. Waterfalls will probably need some new textures though.