Looking to pay for mod to be made

[julianDelphiki77]

If you are talented and can prove it , I am looking for a mod for etqw wars to be made , if that is allowed as far as paying someone don't know forgive me don't know much about modding . If you are intrested please see my other post QuakeWars elite and see if this is something you might be able to achieve then post here and links to past work then I will contact you if intrested.

[[]v[]]

Can you pay in meat n' potato pies as it's the only currency I understand
and fits nicely in my wallet.:O

I notice you don't say how much, to do that would be a years supply of pies at least.

[marmil]

v[];95568']Can you pay in meat n' potato pies as it's the only currency I understand and fits nicely in my wallet.:O
...


Don't you mean your Sporran? ;)

[julianDelphiki77]

I could pay you in spam if you like but i was talking more dollars and the amount is negoitable of course depending on what could be accomplished.

[MWLL|Criminal]

Why would you want to pay someone to make a mod, when if you have that much desire for it to be created might be easier to take it upon yourself to try it yourself. Just my opinion not trying to start an argument just seems like an odd request IMO.

[AnthonyJ]

forgive me don't know much about modding

Because you're not a modder, I guess you dont have an appreciation for how much time it takes to make a non-trivial mod. If you're after something more than just a few variable tweaks, you could easily be talking about many hundreds of manhours of effort.

This level of dedication and effort is not something which anyone will put in on something they're not interested in simply because they're offered a bit of money, since that money is highly unlikely to compensate for the amount of effort required.

I'd suggest you put away your wallet, and instead, when the SDK comes take a look yourself, and try and find people who have similar goals to yourself (once you have something to show, along with some concrete ideas).

Looking at your post, some of the things you list are trivial, and are something you could do yourself without too much difficulty (yes, I saw you consider yourself too busy to learn, but IMO thats not going to cut it I'm afraid). Some of them are things which are probably not so easy, and so you're going to have to find someone who wants to work with you. Offering them a couple of hundred dollars isnt likely to find you someone either capable, or interested in doing it.

(Edit: grammar)

[MWLL|Criminal]

Because you're not a modder, I guess you dont have an appreciation for how much time it takes to make a non-trivial mod. If you're after something more than just a few variable tweaks, you could easily be talking about many hundreds of manhours of effort.

This level of dedication and effort is not something which anyone will put in on something they're not interested in simply because they're offered a bit of money, since that money will is highly unlikely to compensate for the amount of effort required.

I'd suggest you put away your wallet, and instead, when the SDK comes take a look yourself, and try and find people who have similar goals to yourself (once you have something to show, along with some concrete ideas).

Looking at your post, some of the things you list are trivial, and are something you could do yourself without too much difficulty (yes, I saw you consider yourself too busy to learn, but IMO thats not going to cut it I'm afraid). Some of them are things which are probably not so easy, and so you're going to have to find someone who wants to work with you. Offering them a couple of hundred dollars isnt likely to find you someone either capable, or interested in doing it.

I think Anthony just said what most of us are thinking.

[reyalp]

Mind you, if he's willing to pay real consultant rates, there are probably a few people who might be interested, assuming it's permitted in the game and SDK EULAs.

I wouldn't expect to find competent custom coding for much less than $50/hr, although you might find starving student who would do it for less. Anything but a trivial mod is going to be at least a few hundred hours of work. If is worth $5K-$10K not to have to learn the SDK, I guess that's his choice ;)

Of course, any mod is also going to require some ongoing support for bug fixes etc.

[rook]

i'll sell out assuming the price is right.

[sponge]

stuff

Listen to this fine gentleman's words, he has a tad bit of experience modding the Doom3 engine :)

[rook]

modding is easy. companies give you an engine to build on top of. all of the hard work is done.

[ThinkFear]

snip

Beautifully stated. Most modders aren't in it for the money. Thousands of man hours go into creating a total conversion modification. Its a thing you simply can't purchase with what you are offering. If you really are desperate to help but don't want to get your hands dirty, I'd suggest giving back to the community. Put up a server for the mod of your choice or maybe become a sponsor if the team in question is interested. Modding isn't always that technical though, a skilled writer or non-digital artist is a welcome addition to any team.

[Ifurita]

Same applies to mapping

[rook]

Wow, it's amazing how twisted everyone's idea of a modding community is. Every modder would be in it for the money if there was money to be made. The reason modders do it for free is because no one wants to pay them. IF and WHEN a team releases a good mod, people are willing to donate left and right, but who in the hell is going to pay a mod team when 90% of the fail to deliver a good mod, or fail to deliver anything at all?

If they do something good enough, or catch the right person's eye, then they end up in Splash Damage's position.

Quit lying to each other, pretending how the modding community consist of noble people who strive to improve the game they mod. That's a load of crap.

[Kamikazee]

Actually, that was not what was being said.

To quote AnthonyJ's post:
This level of dedication and effort is not something which anyone will put in on something they're not interested in simply because they're offered a bit of money, since that money is highly unlikely to compensate for the amount of effort required.

People who do stuff for free do it because they like it. If they won't like it, they would require some money or they really have got nothing better to do.

[rook]

they do it for free because no one wants to pay them.

[ThinkFear]

they do it for free because no one wants to pay them.

Once I start to get paid for what I do it becomes a job. Modding is a fun hobby to most of us, not a full-time living. Theres nothing noble about it, its just enjoyable. Most other modders that I know would not be interested in any sort of monetary gain. The second someone starts paying me is the second they begin to make the rules and shape the game to their liking, thats not what I'm here for. Money isn't everything.

[Kamikazee]

They do it for free because no one wants to pay them.Care to explain what your point was exactly? I think I should get some rest, but I believe this one line is not enough...

[rook]

My point is as follows: A guy wants to pay people to make a mod, you guys are telling him to do it himself and that it's unlikely he'll find anyone willing to do it for him for cash compensation because of the time and effort involved in making a mod. This is far from the truth.

As already stated, modding is a hobby for most and thus it's not time consuming. They do it in their spare time. Spare being the operative word. They, though, do not do it for the love of the game nor for some other stupid notion of respect or loyalty. They do it because they either feel something can be improved upon or that the idea behind the mod is worth exploring. Monetary gain is an upside most modders wish they'd get. So who are you, or anyone else to tell this guy that his approach is wrong? He has an idea and the inability to see this idea realized and thus came up with a solution that he's willing to meet that will bring incentive to others to make the mod for him. Good incentive at that. Who wouldn't want to get paid to make a mod in their spare time? You get to do your hobby AND get paid for it? Sign me up.

The reason more people don't offer such compensation is because they don't have the ability to pay people or because they don't want to. I'd say that roughly 80% of the ideas for mods are trash. They're horrible ideas for a game and if they do manage to finish it, hardly anyone will play it. Who'd want to pay people to do that? Splash Damage is getting paid to make a pseudo-mod because of the success of previous mods. I can't think of a single mod team that would turn down such an offer.

You guys act all high and mighty when the idea of monetary compensation comes into a conversation, as though you'd never take it if it was offered and that's a load of crap.

If you're going to sit here and say you'd turn down an offer to be paid to do what you claim to enjoy so much, then I'll sit here and say you're an idiot.

[Ifurita]

I've been offered cash compensation for mapping. I turned it down.

Most people have no idea what kind of time goes into a project and I chose to forego minor compensation for the major headaches of someone else having an unreasonable expectation that they had creative control over the project.

[rook]

I've been offered cash compensation for mapping. I turned it down.

Most people have no idea what kind of time goes into a project and I chose to forego minor compensation for the major headaches of someone else having an unreasonable expectation that they had creative control over the project.

So, you're saying the reward wasn't worth it, not that you wouldn't do it. I'm not saying people should code up a storm for one dollar. Clearly, the reward should be equal to the work required.

[reyalp]

My point is as follows: A guy wants to pay people to make a mod, you guys are telling him to do it himself and that it's unlikely he'll find anyone willing to do it for him for cash compensation because of the time and effort involved in making a mod. This is far from the truth.

Note that most of the people responding here actually make mods or maps. The fact that you keep referring to modders as "they" rather than "we" suggests you don't have the direct experience in this matter that we do.

As already stated, modding is a hobby for most and thus it's not time consuming. They do it in their spare time. Spare being the operative word.

Spare time is limited, and modding is VERY time consuming. Most people who haven't tried it have no idea as to the amount of work that goes into this kind of thing.


They, though, do not do it for the love of the game nor for some other stupid notion of respect or loyalty.
To assume that at least some artists and craftspeople don't do what they do out of simple love for the craft is just wrong. Making your own mod is a creative/artistic endeavor, which makes coding someone else's ideas much less appealing for many of us.


If you're going to sit here and say you'd turn down an offer to be paid to do what you claim to enjoy so much, then I'll sit here and say you're an idiot.
I suggested that if he was willing to pay normal contract development rates, that it's quite likely he could find someone to do it, assuming it can be done legally (which is in doubt, because most games have fairly strict limits on commercial exploitation of mods). What most people here are suggesting is that he doesn't understand how much work is involved, and thus how much paying a fair wage would cost him. As I said before, if his idea is actually worth $5K-$10k for him, I'm sure he'd find some takers.

The idea that modders would do it for sub-minimum wage, because they are already using their spare time for modding anyway is misguided, because making someone elses idea isn't nearly as fun as making your own.

[rook]

Note that most of the people responding here actually make mods or maps. The fact that you keep referring to modders as "they" rather than "we" suggests you don't have the direct experience in this matter that we do.

Spare time is limited, and modding is VERY time consuming. Most people who haven't tried it have no idea as to the amount of work that goes into this kind of thing.

I program in 4 languages, as well as 3 scripting languages and have been modding since '98. I make maps, music, sounds, skins and textures. I know exactly what it takes to make a mod, especially since I've done all of it on my own for the majority of my modding life. I was one of the few people dumb enough to actually take everyone's advice and do it on my own.

A total conversion mod is time consuming. doing what he wants isn't. if you guys even took a moment to look at what he wanted, you'd not only understand his position, but mine as well. get off the high horse, you're no better than anyone else.

[reyalp]

A total conversion mod is time consuming. doing what he wants isn't. if you guys even took a moment to look at what he wanted, you'd not only understand his position, but mine as well.
I read his list of ideas. From my experience with ET mods, my opinion is the work required is non-trivial. Of course, without having seen the ET:QW SDK, it's hard to estimate accurately. None the less, it is a fact that most people who have never made such a thing have no idea how much work is involved, and the OP admitted that he knew nothing about modding.

[Catbox]

I'll do it... I need 4,000 cases of budlight and pizza delivered daily... until the mod is done... lol... CB

[MWLL|Criminal]

I program in 4 languages, as well as 3 scripting languages and have been modding since '98. I make maps, music, sounds, skins and textures. I know exactly what it takes to make a mod, especially since I've done all of it on my own for the majority of my modding life. I was one of the few people dumb enough to actually take everyone's advice and do it on my own.

A total conversion mod is time consuming. doing what he wants isn't. if you guys even took a moment to look at what he wanted, you'd not only understand his position, but mine as well. get off the high horse, you're no better than anyone else.

Care to share some of your work, seems like you do everything I'm very impressed!

None of us here have implied that we are any better than the guy proposing to pay for a mod to be done, so i really don't know where you're getting that from.

[AnthonyJ]

I'm not gunna take each of rook's posts and comment line by line cos thats just a waste of time, however here are some points:

1. My main point was to highlight that money will not be enough in many cases, or that his idea of the amount of money required is likely to be wildly inaccurate. eg, people might assume that $500 is plenty as thats 10 times what the game cost, and yet its practically nothing in reality for most mods.
2. Many of the people he's targetting are in well paid jobs themselves, so money isnt that big an incentive anyway. As reyalp said, you might get some students (is that you, rook?). Throwing a little money around wont get you a professional software developer though, like the leads of many mods.
3. I've been offered money to code mods before, and turned it down for similar reasons to Ifurita - loss of control due to unreasonable expectations due to an underestimation of the effort vs compensation required.
4. I suggested he tackle the easy bits himself. (guessing as I've not seen the SDK or poked at the media) It'd probably only take someone explaining .def files to him and he could probably do the weapon tweaks himself quicker than dictating the values to someone else. Paying someone to tweak configuration filers is stupidity.
5. I also suggested that he then find others who would work with him to do the hard bits. If he was working with someone else who's goal was "make an ETQW mod that is harder than ETQW" then they can work together as a team. Working with me, someone who would rather rip the classes system out of ETQW, would not be as fun for either of us.

Personally I think his list of ideas sounded like a good way to screw the balance that SD have been striving for, and that if the mod is to actually meet his goal of "ETQW but harder" its gunna take a hell of a lot more effort than it appears.

[rook]

Why would you want to pay someone to make a mod, when if you have that much desire for it to be created might be easier to take it upon yourself to try it yourself. Just my opinion not trying to start an argument just seems like an odd request IMO.

Lets do some basic addition:

A guy who knows nothing about modding which implies he knows nothing of programming + doing it himself = minimum 6 months to accomplish what he wants.

A guy who knows nothing about modding but paying + a guy does it for him = 3 months tops.

6 - 3 = ?

Yes, clearly doing it himself would be so much easier.

Because you're not a modder, I guess you dont have an appreciation for how much time it takes to make a non-trivial mod. If you're after something more than just a few variable tweaks, you could easily be talking about many hundreds of manhours of effort.

You could also be easily talking about less than 50 man hours of effort. Don't take it to an extreme.

This level of dedication and effort is not something which anyone will put in on something they're not interested in simply because they're offered a bit of money, since that money is highly unlikely to compensate for the amount of effort required.

I didn't see him say he's paying nickels and dimes but I did see him say it's negotiable. HRM.

I'd suggest you put away your wallet, and instead, when the SDK comes take a look yourself, and try and find people who have similar goals to yourself (once you have something to show, along with some concrete ideas).

Or he could take the same approach he's taking now and just ignore all of the people like you who are upset they're not getting paid.

Looking at your post, some of the things you list are trivial, and are something you could do yourself without too much difficulty (yes, I saw you consider yourself too busy to learn, but IMO thats not going to cut it I'm afraid). Some of them are things which are probably not so easy, and so you're going to have to find someone who wants to work with you. Offering them a couple of hundred dollars isnt likely to find you someone either capable, or interested in doing it.

(Edit: grammar)

Being too busy isn't going to cut it? Isn't that THE excuse of modders? "O-M-G guys i'm so sorry it's taking so long but i've been so busy!!!!!!11!"

Care to share some of your work, seems like you do everything I'm very impressed!

None of us here have implied that we are any better than the guy proposing to pay for a mod to be done, so i really don't know where you're getting that from.

Is it really coming to a penis waving contest? I coded 2 game types from scratch for Tribes 2 (Domination [concept from UT], Freeze Tag), made the official Arena League game type, single handedly coded a playable Tribes mod for HL2, though I stopped development once word spread about ET:TW, I kept Ren2k updated and fixed bugs in it back in Tribes 1, coded a duel mod for Ren2k, made about 20 maps between Tribes 1 and Tribes 2, created 2 administrative mods (T1 & T2), I've created an add-on for Warcraft 3 that would calculate how much experience you would gain or lose for your current opponent, developed about 10 maps for Warcraft 3 / expansion with custom scripting, coded a bounty add-on for Arena in T2, coded in add-on support for Tribes 2, made a DKP add-on for WOW, including a stand alone executable as well as a custom DKP system and I coded in player ratings for T2 as well. I also started when I was fourteen and am completely self taught. There's about thirty other projects I can list but none of which were ever finished because I lost interest in them and I haven't even started on all of the web-development I've done or independent software.

As you can see, the list is getting a little long and I can list more. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to go around advertising what I've done, nor do I feel the need to make a million useless posts like you. Lastly, if you want to mock someone, be prepared to have it thrown in your face.

[AnthonyJ]

I didn't see him say he's paying nickels and dimes but I did see him say it's negotiable. HRM.
Okay, lets leave it at that then. Let him give us a ballpark figure of roughly where his upper level might be, and then we'll see if he gets anywhere. I'm just making him aware that his ballpark figure is probably way too low, since he knows nothing about modding.

Or he could take the same approach he's taking now and just ignore all of the people like you who are upset they're not getting paid.
lol, no, I'm not upset about not getting paid. I probably paid more in tax this month than his upper max is likely to be, and have plenty of spare cash thanks. I do mod development on Q4 because I enjoy it. I'm sorry you're so cynical. Perhaps you dislike your real-life job, and thats why you wish you were getting paid for mod dev?

[Kapeket]

Mind you, if he's willing to pay real consultant rates, there are probably a few people who might be interested, assuming it's permitted in the game and SDK EULAs.

I wouldn't expect to find competent custom coding for much less than $50/hr, although you might find starving student who would do it for less. Anything but a trivial mod is going to be at least a few hundred hours of work. If is worth $5K-$10K not to have to learn the SDK, I guess that's his choice ;)

Of course, any mod is also going to require some ongoing support for bug fixes etc.

The pricing for this sort of work is not bad at all.

But you would hope recovering it somehow would be possible.

Good luck with this effort. :)

[TTK-Bandit]

@rook:
you can not expect a modder to develop your mod just because you pay money.
the modder needs to want to develop your mod, otherwise it would take lots of money to convince him to do it.
and if the modder really wants to develop the mod, then you can only donate something, not pay him for it, because it would probably never be enough to call it 'paying'
in the case he is creating the mod anyway, he is likely not going to do the things a donor wants but rather the thing he or the community wants.
You need to convince a modder to create a mod before you offer money or anything, and if you got him interested, don't expect him to do anything you want to see for the money you donate.
btw most modders are probably happier for webspace or game server donations, because money lets this look like work and you mostly don't wanna work when you just get home from work.

Just my 2 Cents

[MWLL|Criminal]

As you can see, the list is getting a little long and I can list more. Unlike you, I don't feel the need to go around advertising what I've done, nor do I feel the need to make a million useless posts like you. Lastly, if you want to mock someone, be prepared to have it thrown in your face.

Have it thrown in my face? Where exactly did i mock you? I'm going to go ahead an call shenanigans on you, i think you're understanding of modders in general is pretty skewed.

[rook]

Care to share some of your work, seems like you do everything I'm very impressed!

Whether or not you intended it, that comes off as mocking. Choose your words more carefully.

@rook:
you can not expect a modder to develop your mod just because you pay money.
the modder needs to want to develop your mod, otherwise it would take lots of money to convince him to do it.
and if the modder really wants to develop the mod, then you can only donate something, not pay him for it, because it would probably never be enough to call it 'paying'
in the case he is creating the mod anyway, he is likely not going to do the things a donor wants but rather the thing he or the community wants.
You need to convince a modder to create a mod before you offer money or anything, and if you got him interested, don't expect him to do anything you want to see for the money you donate.
btw most modders are probably happier for webspace or game server donations, because money lets this look like work and you mostly don't wanna work when you just get home from work.

Just my 2 Cents

You can expect someone to do what you want if you're paying them. I know I would expect someone to, just like I'd do what's expected if I was getting paid, assuming the price was reasonable for what's being asked.

[moonshield]

You could search a publisher and pay people to make a game ;). I don't see the point in paying for a mod. You could donate money for mod teams so they can host their own servers etc.