Brink Presentation Review.

[Azuvector]

Originally Posted by Scrupus

But - if you want permanent ranks, how about a more dynamic system like in Trackmania (I think it's there I've seen it), where each match only have a fixed amount of "xp" to be shared among the players. Players with low rank gets a much bigger share if they play well compared to high rank players playing the same match, and the high-rankers only get a fraction. This should balance servers better, and limit the problem with veterans owning noobs just for fun. It would also make it pointless for people to xp farm on servers, since there is only a limited amount of "gold" available pr. match. The total xp to share pr. match should of course depend on number of players in the match, so players don't farm on empty servers.

Felt a need to comment on this...
This would result in players playing a while, then creating a new smurf account, to reap the benefits of a high XP multiplier with good skills.
It'd essentially destroy any sense of community involved in getting to know people's usernames, when there's a huge benefit to just creating a new account periodically.

[Cankor]

Summary:

XP unlocks are great when they reset and don't overpower things, scary when they don't reset because it discourages new players from playing after the game has been out awhile.

Global leaderboards encourage "bad" behavior.

If there must be a stats system (probably a given cause masses expect it)

1. keep it private. Worse case make it an "opt in", you can still play on ranked servers or whatever you want to call the, but your stats aren't recorded. Muds league idea works here.

2. If you have (personal) stats make them relevant and provide a history and moving average bar (like this) so you can see how you're improving or not over time.

Here's a thought, store the player's stats on their own computer and give them access to all the data, let them load it into their own database, or spreadsheet or whatever and do all their own charts and everything else to their hearts content. If they want to track a million details for the last 2 years of playing, they are only limited by their hard drive size (have options where they can save more or less info). In this scenario, if guys want to brag about their stats and post to a forum they'll be posting stats everyone knows they could have easily modified, so it takes away that incentive as well. But at the same time, you're giving the detail weenies (like me ) lots of info they can play with.

[Szakalot]

good thinking Cankor!
that solves most of the problems, stats are still relevant for those that want them, but dont have that ego-stroking 'official' badge to them.

[Bud_Spencer]

Originally Posted by ONCEX

To be honest, I only cared about the clan stats to see how good or bad I was compared to the other clan members. It was useful to see who was the best medic, field ops, etc. I knew that we had no xp whores in the clan, so that board provided me with useful info about the clan members skills in different classes or vehicles.
.. .

So why not try a different approach that has been working fine for many games before and targets a little more the above mentioned, more interesting side of stats - the comparison to your mates and community friends:


Don't implement global stats but provide a well designed, feature rich interface for plugin makers, so that they can create good stats plugins - or even ship a customizable one with basic config together with the game. Let's say at minimum you have to provide the database to which the stats shall be written and you're ready to go. That could even be embedded in the server setup routine like "Where do you want me to install the stats DB, Mr. Admin?". Maybe even a fully designed HTML output page could also be deliverd, so that everybody not having any coding skills can use it in the context of the own clan site. So every community running a server can set up this plugin and configure it to their needs and display their recorded stats on their website. Thats no big deal for a server administrator. Have faith in their knowledge and enthusiasm!

As I said before, some time ago this was standard and worked out well! Miss that really!

[a11an]

Call of Duty has a nice server side setting. AUTO ASSIGN only! Stacking problem solved.

[Azuvector]

Originally Posted by a11an

Call of Duty has a nice server side setting. AUTO ASSIGN only! Stacking problem solved.

Frankly, that's annoying when you want to play with a friend. It's fine when you're gaming alone, but something of a pissoff otherwise.

[Scrupus]

Originally Posted by Azuvector

Felt a need to comment on this...
This would result in players playing a while, then creating a new smurf account, to reap the benefits of a high XP multiplier with good skills.
It'd essentially destroy any sense of community involved in getting to know people's usernames, when there's a huge benefit to just creating a new account periodically.

The point is, that "new" players would quickly loose xp benefits as they climb - so it wouldn't help to start all over, as it would be just as hard as before when you reach the level you already had...

Ideally your "rank bonus" would be recalculated after each match, and ideally combined with dynamic ranks that only use the last 2 weeks or so in the calculation. Like Splatterladder already does, I believe.

aka upkeep

[Generic.Z]

Originally Posted by Bud_Spencer

Maybe even a fully designed HTML output page could also be deliverd, so that everybody not having any coding skills can use it in the context of the own clan site. So every community running a server can set up this plugin and configure it to their needs and display their recorded stats on their website. Thats no big deal for a server administrator. Have faith in their knowledge and enthusiasm!

Amen to that!

Let the clans control the stats.. not some global site.. not only does it save the clan money, it also brings in traffic to their website as well.. which usually results in more peeps joining their clan and thus more members splitting the cost to run their server(s)... + more clan funds = longer server life = more revenue to the server host and the developers...

Originally Posted by Bud_Spencer

As I said before, some time ago this was standard and worked out well! Miss that really!

FRAK'ING A!

[anthonyda]

Originally Posted by Szakalot

Ive never seen it happen in W:ET, forumees are only a fraction of the playerbase, i seriously doubt its going to be a post-spamfest.

Because there is NO persistant stats in W:et, you missed all the point of the post, d'oh.

Originally Posted by Rahdo

What about, as some posters here have mentioned, leaderboards that only list your stats relative to friends and clan mates. With the much smaller sample size, and the more "personal" atmosphere, I wonder if that wouldn't lead to the same problems. Certainly if someone is whoring because of them, it would be obvious to everyone and they'd call him out. Thoughts? I have to admit, I care more about these sorts of personal leaderboards than worldwide ones anyway...

Any stats ala ETQW = whoring. I can already see clans of dozen of players only playing for the whoring stats and compare each other.

The best idea i saw so far here, is temporary stats (ie: 1week/1month), but let's face it, noobs only wants permanent upgrades & stats

[Szakalot]

Originally Posted by anthonyda

Because there is NO persistant stats in W:et, you missed all the point of the post, d'oh.

a) Splatter ladder had persistent stats for some of the W:ET promod servers, and ive never seen anything even remotely like what you describe happen.


b) if your not referring to W:ET, how do you know its gonna happen in the first place? Its just a speculation.

[Rahdo]

of course one way to introduce global leaderboards without introducing obsessive behavior is to have said global stats only come out of matches played against 100% bots (i.e. single player). The bots won't mind if the player is less than focused. QUestion is, would this scratch the itch of players who like to climb ladders...

[darthmob]

Originally Posted by Rahdo

of course one way to introduce global leaderboards without introducing obsessive behavior is to have said global stats only come out of matches played against 100% bots (i.e. single player). The bots won't mind if the player is less than focused. QUestion is, would this scratch the itch of players who like to climb ladders...

To be honest that doesn't make sense. It would promote playing alone in a MP game.

[Azuvector]

Originally Posted by darthmob

To be honest that doesn't make sense. It would promote playing alone in a MP game.

Seconded...

[anthonyda]

Originally Posted by Szakalot

a) Splatter ladder had persistent stats for some of the W:ET promod servers, and ive never seen anything even remotely like what you describe happen.


b) if your not referring to W:ET, how do you know its gonna happen in the first place? Its just a speculation.

Splatter ladder isn't persistant at all ! (don't play for 2weeks and your score is almost down to zero again !). And it's only based on xp earned by map, it doesn't shows k/d ratio, w/l ratio and many others stats who are making people going spect just before the end/ragequittting and so on.


We were talking about stats ala QW but only visible by you (ex: while logged ingame with your account), nothing public. But the point is that pep are going to post pics of theyre private stats board for comparaison, and for sure they'll keep quitting just before the end of the round just to non keep the match results in theyre stats etc.

[LighT_Sh4v0r]

If people quite a few seconds before map end I'm not bothered, it's not like the game would've been any different if they didn't.

[anthonyda]

It is just an example of what an xp whore can do, there are shitload of annoying thing to do as xp whore/stats whore.

[Azuvector]

Originally Posted by anthonyda

It is just an example of what an xp whore can do, there are shitload of annoying thing to do as xp whore/stats whore.

To be fair, if the map is essentially over and you've got stuff to do, you might as well quit in the last few seconds, as wait for the stats screen to load. Wins/Losses should be tracked not just by the actual win/loss moment, but by giving a win/loss to anyone who's hung around at least half the round's duration on one team, too, even if they've disconnected.

[Szakalot]

a very plausible solution!

[DrFunkenstein]

Originally Posted by LighT_Sh4v0r

If people quite a few seconds before map end I'm not bothered, it's not like the game would've been any different if they didn't.

Of course it doesn't matter for the outcome of the match, but I find it annoying as hell when people go spec or disconnect, just because they're so concerned about there precious win/loss ratio. Here's a fine example of what you can achieve by hitting disconnect every time you're about to lose: Wolfbaby

Check his win/loss ration and trust me, he's not a very good player.

Dr. Funkenstein

[Szakalot]

6,30 cannot be achieved without serious stacking/and or last-sec disconnecting, just because one player in a 12teams cannot change the outcome of EVERY game. The best non-stacking players i know barely reach 3. By non-stacking i also mean switching teams when teams appear unbalanced, not purposeful playing with friends.

That guy's k/d ratio explains everything.

[prophet]

rep system is a bad idea...

[Szakalot]

would you care to elaborate?

[Sugar_addict]

With the leader boards, i think it would be nice to see for example accuracy for not only all time, but also comparable with this week and the previous one, some graphs, that kind of thing.

[General_Zod]

Man, all this talk about xp and stats. I've never really cared. You know what I care about splash damage? Just give me the goods again. You're two for two. It's just a damn shame with QW. I don't know if it was bad timing/marketing or the steep learning curve, but it didn't take off like it should have.

My only complaint is the 30 fps animations and that it just doesn't feel like this engine can do a smooth solid 60fps no matter what system you have. Hell, I'd pay money at this point for an update that would fix that issue. But I know the past is the past. Just don't change the objective/fast game play with brink. And even though Carmack hates it, keep in the bunny hopping to gain speed.

[BioSnark]

Originally Posted by Szakalot

would you care to elaborate?

might be the town dump for hackusations and insults.