Advice for placing mines and deployables

[RedPixels]

Deployables

#1: Leave enough room
Look at how many build-able squares you're leaving available. Are you leaving the next guy enough room to build something? If not, DON'T build there! To do so would be the ETQW equivalent of taking up two parking spaces! If possible, select a spot near one the edges of the deployable area. This will maximize the usable area for other players.

#2: Build what the team needs
Before building, look around at what other people are building. If you already see a Artillery Intercept Turret in the area, odds are your team doesn't need another. Build something else! Is the forward spawn being harassed by vehicles? Time to build a Anti-vehicle turret. Did that anti-personnel turret just go down? Build another! Pay attention to the changing needs of the battlefield and use common sense.

#3: Choose the right location
Consider whether you're selecting the best spot for your particular deployable. Turrets should go closest to the enemy, preferably in pairs (anti-vehicle and anti-personnel,) right near the front line. Artillery Intercept Turrets should be next closest, followed by radar. Artillery pieces should be way, way far away from the action, preferably somewhere inside your initial deployment area. Remember, if you put your deployable in a sub-optimal location, you're just denying that space to someone who could make better use of it. Realize that if you're dropping something that's going to SHOOT at the enemy, you need to make sure it has an appropriate arc of fire. You don't want your turret facing a wall, nor do you want it to fire AT or THROUGH someone else's deployable.

#4: Be diligent!
Yes, it can be frustrating when your deployables are constantly rendered inoperative. Don't give up! If you're a builder, its your duty to keep ALL friendly deployables, including those of your allies, repaired and functioning. If your deployable goes down, replace it ASAP. If the need is urgent and you can't repair your deployable (e.g. you're not a builder, your device is sabotaged, the area is overrun with enemies, etc.) replace it immediately. The team is counting on the assets that you provide, soldier. Don't let them down.

Mines

#1: Use the mines to protect vital interests
As a builder, you have the ability (and responsibility) to effectively cover multiple areas of the battlefield. While you are off assaulting or repairing, your deployables and mines should provide security for the team's vital interests. This frees you and your fellows from tedious guard duty, allowing everyone to get back to the best part of the game: combat. In particular, use your mines to defend forward spawns and objectives. If you're afraid of hackers you might try placing mines on or near your own deployables, but realize that any resulting detonation will damage your device as well as the enemy.

#2: Place the mines appropriately
Don't feel the need to pile mines on the objective itself. That's the FIRST place the enemy is going to 'nade. You're just wasting the mines and giving the enemy grenades a bigger boom. Remember: Friendlies are going to be in the vicinity of the objective! Even in war - safety first! Consider placing mines around blind corners and at the top of staircases, somewhere along the enemy's approach. The goal is for the mines to remain unseen until they are triggered. Due to placement requirements, trip-mines are easier to spot than proximity mines. Keep this in mind.

#3: Mines need to "see" the enemy
A proximity mine require a sort of "line-of-sight" to the enemy in addition to mere proximity. When placing a mine, stand where you want your victim to be when the mine detonates. Can you see the mine clearly? If so, then the mine will likely "see" your victim. With any luck, your victim won't be as attentive.

#4: Consider the blast pattern
When a mine detonates it will also explode any and all other mines within its blast radius. Be aware of how exploding mines are likely to interact based on their placement. Note that a mine needn't be active to explode. In fact, you can increase your explosive coverage by hiding non-active mines widely-spaced near an active mine. Enemy players might harmlessly and unknowing pass by the inactive mines to (hopefully) detonate the active mine. The result: One player could trigger the simultaneous detonation of multiple mines, which, thanks to the larger coverage area, might kill off multiple enemies.

#5: Be mindful of chokepoints
Remember, friendlies will take defensive positions at chokepoints. In tight quarters one triggered mine can spell a tragic end for several allies. If you notice friendlies piling in to defend a chokepoint, disarm any mines you have in the area. They're a liability.

#6: Mind other people's mines
Pay attention to the placement of friendly mines. If someone else has covered the area appropriately, placing your mines there as well would be a waste. If you still think you should add some mines, again, take note of the likely blast patterns. What will happen when your mine explodes? What will happen to YOUR mine when his mine(s) explode(s)? You might find that your mine, planted just outside the door, will accidentally detonate all the mines inside the room, thus freeing the enemy from having to clear the room himself.

#7: Consider using mines offensively
Remember, mines can be exploded with grenades. If you're quick, you might find that you have time to throw a few mines on or near an enemy vehicle. One grenade will detonate the whole shebang, severely damaging the vehicle. Also, YES, proximity mines can be placed on vehicles! Throw a few armed mines on the grill of your Husky and drive toward a concentration of enemies. Hit the gas and jump off! The explosion shouldn't fail to impress. Realize, however, that (fun though it may be) suicide bombing probably isn't the best use of your mines. Your first priority is defense.

Anyone have anything to add?

-RP

[Zeldor]

Mining capturable spawns is very important, so noone has to waste time guarding them. And it is better to place them where someone will be going to that spawn, not directly on it [but you have 3 mines, so you can make nice defence].

And people should really look around when approaching objective or important place and use grenades to clear mines. Being dead is not cool.

[RedPixels]

I've updated this thread with ideas expressed here and elsewhere. I also improved the formatting a bit.

-RP

[imawesome]

Adding it to my tips post. Good work.

[RedPixels]

Updated the main post with more advice and information.

-RP

[Rockn-Roll]

Excellent post. All I would add since I've played plenty of Engineer is that for deployables the anti-Personnel (APT) and anti-vehicle (AVT) turrents should be near each other...they work together to protect themselves and the area...that's what the built spots are best used for at the spillway spawnpoint...the APT closest so it has a view of the inside of the building housing the spawnpoint laptop, followed by the AVT. An anti-artillary (AAT) can go in the area behind the building.

Mines are an engineers best tool...when I first get to a spawnpoint I plant a mine around the laptop...I've also found that the mines have a trigger FOV as well as radius (it could be a bug, but it's currently how the game is doing this)...if I plant a mine on the shelves while behind the shelves it won't go off when an enemy walks up to the laptop to capture the spawnpoint...it's best to be standing where you want the enemy to be when you want the mine to detonate. So, 1st I plant a mine or two to guard the laptop then I deploy an AVT...no anti-personnel is needed...just plant a mine or two on the AVT. You only want an APT if there is a good chance of getting swamped with several enemies at once...mines and an AVT are best for a single engineer to protect against a single enemy.

Also...I mine stairs...the enemy is not looking at their feet...mine the bottom of stairs or the area at the bottom...especially if they are just crawl spaces so that they won't have a chance to detect a mine until it is too late. If you are entering an area with only one or two exits (like the computer terminals) then mine them...proximity are best as they are harder to detect...the tripmines can be seen...usually before the enemy is close enough to set it off.

[Ifurita]

Red, if you'd like, synthesize the comments (you've already done most of it), I'll edit it and add some of my own comments, and then I'll add it as an article in 4 Newbies under your byline

[RedPixels]

Originally Posted by Ifurita

Red, if you'd like, synthesize the comments (you've already done most of it), I'll edit it and add some of my own comments, and then I'll add it as an article in 4 Newbies under your byline

Roger that. Will get right on it. Edit: Okay Ilfurita, it's all yours. Do with it what you will.

RedPixels

[reyalp]

Some advice for both:
Turrets and mines basically only kill people who don't expect them, or are forced into them by other circumstances. Anyone who is paying attention can see and avoid them. This means that using them in the same place over and over greatly reduces their effectiveness. Placing them where the enemy will be forced to go by your other actions increases their effectiveness.

If you are defending a choke point, consider where the enemy will go for cover when attacking. Put your mine in that spot.

If someone dies on a mine twice in one spot, they are going to expect it the next time. If you want to get kills, plant your mines in a different spot every time they get blown up. Sometimes it's better to just force a delay, in which case putting mines in a predictable spot isn't a problem.

Likewise for turrets. If you have an AVT protecting spawn that has been seriously damage after a couple of attacks, either move it to a different spot or switch the type. Chances are, the next attack will be expecting it to be in the same location.

Know when to replace and when to repair. If you are on offense especially, it makes sense to just call a new turret rather than sitting around repairing. On defense, you usually want to be in the same area as the turret anyway.

Also remember that both turrets and mines make an excellent early warning system.

[Ifurita]

Yes, just like in W:ET, mines (and now turrets) are supplements to the defense, not replacements. The turret/mine that isn't covered by a defender is almost worthless.

[RedPixels]

All excellent points guys. :-) I'll update the main post when I have a chance.

-RP

[Kodiak]

Here’s what I usually do as a Constructor

Defending the EMP

I usually opt to spawn at the Strogg main base, since most of the vehicles at the forward spawn point will be snatched up by teammates. I check to see if there are any names I recognize, and if the team looks like they will have no problem holding the EMP for at least a minute, I will take the Cyclops out. If I’m unsure, I’ll take the hog out to get there faster.

I prefer to walk the Cyclops out of the western gate to check for any vehicles coming up along the side. If there aren’t any, I will put the Cyclops into siege mode, close to the small western building for cover while I hop out to call in a deployable and plant some mines.



If no one has called in an Artillery Interceptor Turret, I’ll usually put one down in one of the lower I8/J8 deployable zones. If there is already one on the way I sometimes put up an AVT in the northern most 2x2 zone in I8, and point it to the southwest:



At that location it’s slightly on the hill, so it’s able to shoot rockets over the wall. AVT’s have such a horrible range, a tank will take it out no problem, but it’ll take out any hummers or quads trying to rush by.

Like you mentioned, I try to keep my mines away from teammates to avoid TK’s as much as possible. Three of the places I sometimes place mines are:



The furthest west one is actually on the outside of the wall. The reason it’s there is because a lot of GDF turn that corner sharply. They also tend to assume the beeping is from a mine on the inside of the wall, not the corner they are about to turn. Finally, teammates don’t usually hang out by it that much.

The tripwire one most people place. It’s just a convenient location, although not the safest for your teammates.

The final one by the EMP is the little space between the constructable zone and the EMP itself. I see a lot of Engineers, including myself, wedge themselves between the EMP and constructable zone for cover, so placing a mine there usually gets some kills. The constructable zone also shields teammates who aren’t on top of the guy from the blast, so even though it’s in the middle of friendlies, it’s a decently safe location.

If those spots are taken, just aren’t seeing a lot of action, or something needs to be mixed up, the roof and the ladders leading up to it is a very nice location to defend. Both buildings are nice as well, but I find I get killed a lot while laying the mines if no one has deployed our radar yet. Also, a lot of teammates usually like to use the buildings for shelter, and I’ve gotten quite a few TK’s in such confined spaces.

Anyways, once the mines and deployable are down I get back in the Cyclops and drive it around to the eastern side of the map, and go into siege mode next to the building.



Most people park the Cyclops here as the building gives you much needed cover from any rocket strikes or tanks on the hill. You also can harass/kill the GDF spawning and running down the hill. If you remember which canon is going to fire next on the Cyclops, you can shoot through the windows by aiming a little off center in the opposite direction of whichever canon is going to fire next. I prefer to stay more towards the northern end of the building for this reason, as well as being closer to the EMP should someone start building it.

If I didn’t place an AVT or AIT earlier, the deployable zones in J9 and K9 are great for both APT and AVT. The APT will kill most GDF who try to run straight to the EMP rather then going around the hill for cover. If you place an APT in the northwestern section of J9 it will target any GDF who are on the roof, in the building, or trying to sprint around the bend to the EMP.

I haven’t tried placing anything in F7 through H8 zones. I’d be interested to hear if anyone has had success with those spots, because they seem like they are meant more for the GDF once they capture the EMP.

By the way, any Infiltrator’s reading this, I highly suggest one of you place your radar in one of the I6 zones. Even though it won’t be able to reach all the way to the GDF spawn points, it’s close enough to cover the EMP base, and is much safer then locations outside of the wall.

[Kodiak]

After the EMP is constructed

If the EMP is constructed I fall back to the spillway spawn to plant some mines. It seems pretty rare to be able to hold the spillway for any considerable amount of time, but I think it’s worth it to at least slow them down there the first time through. Some people will opt to instead focus on indoor defenses, and just let the GDF take the spillway.

The room with the laptop to capture the spawn is pretty small, which makes it a pain to litter the room with mines while keeping them far enough to not blow each other up. Also, don’t peak around the corner. More often then not a tank will send a love shot your way, usually not killing you, but blowing up your mines, which then kill you. Besides, you don’t want any GDF throwing nades your way either.

Hide a mine on the box, or around the corner:



They won’t see the mine when they enter, they can only possibly hear it.



Mining the doorways leading into the sewer from the outside can be a good idea. The major problem I have with this is just how risky it usually is. Again, if you don’t have a radar up, I don’t recommend it. Instead, I prefer to place one mine at the top of the ladder leading to the overflow hatch, and any others in the hallway leading to the catwalk overlooking the southern sewer.



This hallway is overlooked too often IMO. It’s really one of the most important places to control. If you control it you also control the catwalk overlooking the southern sewer, as well as a backdoor way into the tunnels between the southern and northern sewers. Both are huge vantage points, and can easily turn the tables.

You can really mine whatever you feel like in the hall, including the doorways, the floor, corners, possibly the doorways from the Strogg spawn, the ladder, stairs, whatever. Just mine everything, and then try to bait any GDF coming to rush in blindly.

If the sewers are blown, it’s still sometimes a good idea to try and hold the hallway with mines. As long as your team gets some members between the sewer grates and the controls, it’s beneficial to be able to attack from the catwalk as well in a pincer attack.

As for deployables, our deployable zone selection is pretty crappy once the EMP is built.



Usually you end up throwing one down as you run inside just as some weak defense to discourage getting spawn camped. Most of the time you don’t have to worry about an AIT at this point, as the main Strogg base has one built in which will cover most of the path to the inside. There is a little sliver that it won’t cover, but so far I haven’t felt it was necessary.

[Kodiak]

One zone I keep meaning to try is this one with an AVT:



It will probably just end up hitting the railing though, or the tank won’t be within range. Still, worth trying. Infiltrators can setup radar on top of the base by the Tormentor, but there are also a few squares by the main spawn which would be pointless for any turrets. Oppressors sometimes setup shop here as well.

This post is three posts long because they only allow four images per post.

[Ifurita]

Very cool. Nice details, like the map of deployable locations. That must have taken forever

[Zeldor]

Kodiak:

Nice post, but there are many more great places for mines. And it is really nice to mine Hilltop spawn point [but you need some cover], because most people usually attack EMP letting others to take the spawn, so you can stop them with mines.

About that mine near the ladder down - it is better to make it lower, so they do not see it coming and they die when they jump down. I plant mines a lot so I will maybe make some screenshots with mines in places that grant a lot of kills.

[Kodiak]

Yeah I know, I was just listing the ones I prefer to whore.

I actually don’t usually place mines on the ladder shaft itself, as I’ve had bad luck with people just jumping down, setting off the mine, but being too far below it to take substantial damage. If I do place one around there, it’s usually on the ceiling of the tunnels where the ladder enters.

I had some bad luck with the hilltop spawn as well. The one game I decided to go there, I mined the hell out of, setup camp and waited. Not a single GDF came, instead they had all gone straight for the EMP, wiped out whatever Strogg happened to go there, and built the thing before I could get my ass back there . I’ll have to try it again sometime.

[Zeldor]

Kodiak:

It is good to make some tank shots where you expect mines At hilltop spawn there are some nice things to place mines, where people are going to capture it + where they want to construct the tower [exp hunters ]. I manage to keep that spawn with mines and hog for over 10 minutes, but well, it was total ownage as I also managed to attack GDF main base with cyclops...

IT is funny [but not so practical] to place mines on vehicles - made it recently on tank, engineer poped out to repair it and bum!

I also think that you have missed some spots for deployables on your maps, but I'd have to check it.

[Kodiak]

If you find any let me know. A couple of the far off corners I didn't scour too thoroughly.

[Ifurita]

Got everything edited in HTML, just need to get my computer back up and the pages uploaded.

[RedPixels]

Outstanding Kodiak! I've tried to keep my advice as general possible. It's nice to see specifics as they apply to Sewer. I especially appreciate (and I'm sure everyone else does as well) the deployable map. Great job. :-)

RedPixels

[Ifurita]

How do these look:

http://4newbies.planetwolfenstein.ga...ETQW/mines.php
http://4newbies.planetwolfenstein.ga...s_detailed.php