GDF Valley Strategy & Tactics

[adt1983]

I’ve been playing pretty consistently since the release of Beta 2 and wanted to share my thoughts on GDF strategies and tactics for valley. I don’t have any clan match experience and I haven’t managed to find anyone with vent yet to play with so this post is only really applicable to 8v8 – 16v16 public server matches. This is by no means intended to be the last word on valley – just some quick pointers that will hopefully elevate the level of GDF play and maybe even result in some (gasp) teamwork.

Remember, more important than any set strategy is that whenever you’re playing you should continuously be asking yourself: “Am I really doing the most I possibly can be doing to help my team?”

Phase 1 – Building the Bridge:
Upon your initial spawn your immediate objective should be to extend your defenses up far enough to cover any engineers working on the bridge. Drop 1-2 AVTs up far enough to cover the objective from Icarus pilots and 1-2 APTs as far up as possible to mow down any Strogg infantry assaulting the objective through the valley. If you have 3-4 engineers that have all deployed forward turrets consider dropping an AIT to cover the objective from artillery if it is proving to be a problem.

I prefer taking a conservative approach with the Titan and having it hang about halfway between the base and the objective using it to disable any deployables that the Strogg place outside their spawn and suppress any snipers that are on the mountain above the Strogg spawn. The Titan should not be in range of any Violators that are being tossed on the objective. With the Armadillo I usually try more aggressive strategies. If I get an Armadillo on my first spawn I take it to the crater to the right of the road en route to the objective and try to mow down the first wave of Strogg infantry while waiting for the APTs/AVTs to arrive. After the first spawn I take the Armadillo either just outside the Strogg tunnel on the left side of the valley or inside the tunnel just past the rear exit to the Strogg spawn to lay waste to any newly spawned Strogg and move the most intense fighting as far forward as possible away from the objective.

Medics for this phase should stay stationed close to the objective but far enough away that any explosives won’t kill both the medic(s) and the engineer(s) working on the objective. Assist the APTs in taking down any infantry assaulting the objective. Drop a supply crate close to the objective but not on top of it because it will crush any engineers working on the bridge which is more than a little self-defeating.

Covertops, you NEED to drop smoke on the objective! This alone will do far more to prevent your engineers from getting sniped than even the most amazing of counter-sniping headshot streaks. Another good method of keeping enemy snipers at a minimum is to spawn with a SAR, grab a Husky/Armadillo, head for the east of the Strogg base, bunny-hop up the mountain and eliminate any pesky enemy snipers at point blank range. A SAR should give you a huge advantage over a RG in CQC. Remember, your objective is to keep the enemy snipers off your engineers, not to rack up frags.

You should be able to get through this phase relatively quickly before the Cyclops/Tormentor/Desecrator become major problems but if any of them do show up take them out with the Titan, Soldiers and Rocket Artillery. Keep in mind that any Rocket Artillery you deploy in phase 1 is going to be almost completely useless in phase 2 so make sure to have Artillery/Hammers deployed once phase 1 is complete.

Phase 2 – Capturing the Outpost
Immediately upon completing phase 1, anyone in or close to a Husky/Armadillo needs to beeline for the forward spawn. Remember that you can reach it either by going through the tunnel which will often be mined and have AVTs waiting at its exit or by going left of the tunnel and across the narrow pass. As soon as someone manages to take the forward spawn anyone not doing something more important (MCP/Titan driver, etc.) should wait for the respawn clock to tick down to 2-3 seconds then use the kill command to respawn at the forward spawn to ensure its protection. Mine the forward spawn (I prefer proximity mines but feel free to experiment) and start heading out to wear down the defenses the Strogg have started to erect. Speed is critical in phase 2. Don’t give the Strogg the chance to catch a breath.

Upon the completion of phase 1, 2 new deployable locations open up near the maps larger bridge. I recommend using these spaces for an AVT pointing towards the outpost in the nearest space and either an APT covering the forward spawn exit and the AVT from behind or a second AVT either also pointing toward the outpost or pointing towards the bridge to hopefully catch a Cyclops off guard. If you’re either of the Covertops that dropped two radars on these spaces in my last game please unbind your deployable key. I feel that at least one AVT pointing towards the outpost is critical because it gives the Titan that we are about to bring up a little bit more safe room to work with.

The Titan is the pivotal unit during phase 2. Once the forward spawn is captured, bring it up on the left path being careful not to drive it into the lake. I don’t recommend going through the tunnel unless the MCP has made it at least to the ramp between the tunnel exit and the objective because you won’t have any space to maneuver which is extremely dangerous. When driving the Titan in phase 2 try to adopt a blitzkrieg mentality. You want to shoot any deployables you see enough to disable them but you really can’t afford to take even 2-3 extra shots to completely destroy them, let your infantry come up and do the mop up jobs. You should keep the Titan close enough to the battle to be able to disable any Strogg deployables and destroy any Strogg vehicles that are a threat to your infantry but no closer. Do NOT try to “go Rambo” and hold the outpost or the Strogg spawn by yourself. The Strogg are just going to swarm you to death then run over your infantry with their own vehicles.

The really hard part about driving the Titan in phase 2 is the shear number of effective weapons the Strogg have to throw at you: the Cyclops, Tormentor, Desecrator(s), Hog(s), Icarus(es), AVTs, Violators, Plasma Artillery, Soldiers, and Grenades all can make short work of you. You need to constantly think to yourself “What is the biggest threat to me on the battlefield? Where is my next threat going to come from? How can I get to a relatively safe spot to make repairs?” and react accordingly. Always have a gunner. A gunner can drastically reduce the level of threat you face from infantry grenades, Soldiers, the Icarus, and to a lesser extent Hogs and the Tormentor. The best combos I have found so far are either medic driver/eng gunner or eng driver/eng gunner. You are going to have to repair the Titan several times if the Strogg team is anywhere close to evenly matched.

If you aren’t confident in your ability to quickly move in/out of the Titan to repair it as necessary, launch decoys, effectively evade incoming fire, and accurately return fire all simultaneously then I don’t recommend using the Titan in phase 2. Practice on one of the many empty servers till you get the hang of it. I personally find binding mouse2 to _vehicleCamera in the vehicle context to be very helpful at quickly switching between “driving” and “firing” modes. Try not to run over too many of your teammates while evading enemy fire.

If your team has designated you (either by request or by default) to be your teams Titan driver make sure to set your respawn to the main GDF base.

If you want to be more aggressive with vehicles try grabbing an Armadillo and parking it right in the middle of the Strogg spawn. Use the machine gun to sliver any vehicles (take out 95% of their health but do not destroy them), disable any deployables, and mow down as much infantry as you can. Your life expectancy isn’t going to be very high with this tactic but if you can sliver a few vehicles, disable a deployable or two and hold back 1 or 2 waves of Strogg reinforcements it’s a huge win for your team.

The biggest mistake I see most GDF teams guilty of after poor (or even no) use of the Titan during this phase is too many medics/engineers making suicide runs on a MCP that is getting hammered from all directions and is just going to be immediately disabled even if they miraculously manage to get it repaired. If your team is being almost completely suppressed by vehicles and turrets you need to think hard about changing your class to Soldier to help with the vehicles or Fieldops to disable/destroy the turrets. 2 engineers and a medic is really all you need to repair the MCP during this phase, additional engineers/medics would really do more for their team by helping to clear the way for the MCP, changing class if necessary.

NEVER drive the MCP backwards and remember that you need to hit the _activate key to deploy the MCP once you have reached the objective.

Covertops don’t seem to be particularly effective during this phase. 1 player on your team should keep counter-sniping enemy Infiltrators if they are proving to be pesky but remember your mission is to keep them off your engineers, not to pick off the whole Strogg team from a hawk-eye view. EMPing important vehicles and critical turrets as well as hacking the Strogg AIT to open the door for hammer strikes are two notable ways that experienced Covertops can really distinguish themselves and contribute to a quick phase 2 completion for their team.

[adt1983]

If I am playing Covertops and am confident that my team is going to be able to capture the outpost within the next 30 seconds or so I will sometimes grab a Husky and dart for the 3rd objective, tossing up a 3rd eye camera on one of the walls surrounding the objective for local radar and wait inside one of the buildings for the SSM to hit the shield. As soon as it does dart out to the objective and try to hack it. You’ll never finish the objective against a semi-decent team but it can give the next wave a significant head start. If you’re desperate for every possible second spent hacking the generator use your radar to keep the shield generator between you and any lone defenders.

Phase 3 – Hacking the Shield Generator
After capturing the outpost, the vehicle balance situation finally starts to favor the GDF. Ideally the Titan from the main base will still be alive and a new Titan and Anansi will now spawn at the outpost.

Drop radar, AVTs, an AIT, and artillery (I recommend Rocket Artillery) and take the Titan(s) across the lake via the shallow river path. From here on you need to pay attention to which Titan is from the main base and which is from the outpost. The Titan from the main base should be used much more cautiously than the outpost Titan since it takes about 40 extra seconds to drive the distance from its spawn to the frontlines. Again, use the Titan(s)/Anansi to disable turrets and gang up on the Cyclops and any other vehicles that show up. Keep the Titans far enough apart from each other so that they each have room to maneuver and evade enemy fire. Good Anansi pilots are extremely rare at the moment but hopefully this will improve as people get a better grasp on its rather awkward controls.

Depending on how many players you have on your team, sending a Fieldops with a SAR to the cliff overlooking the Strogg spawn to call in Rocket Artillery against the Cyclops, Tormentor, and any especially pesky turrets as well as snipe at any Strogg near their spawning and shield generator areas can be very effective. Unless the shield generator is exceptionally well guarded try to hold off on artillery strikes on the generator itself because the Strogg respawn far closer to the generator than your own infantry and the last thing you want to do is buy more time for the Strogg by killing as many of your troops as theirs.

Blow the sewer entrance to open up another means of getting infantry to the shield generator then almost everyone not in a vehicle should keep piling into whatever transport they can find and head for the shield generator. If your driving an APC/Armadillo try to make sure that anyone in your base who needs a ride can get one. Arriving all at once is infinitely better than arriving in a single file line of death.

If your vehicles and Fieldops are doing their jobs your infantry should fairly consistently be able to arrive at or near the shield generator nearly unscathed. Even so, the Strogg respawn so close to the generator that you cannot afford to trade them 1:1 in frags. Most, if not all, of the infantry assaulting the generator should be Medics or SAR Covertops. Medics are critical for sustaining an infantry assault on the generator and making sure that any Covertops have sufficient cover for hacking the objective. Medics should drop supply crates in strategic locations for extra health/grenades/ammo. Covertops should deploy 3rd eye cameras to provide local radar and drop smoke around the generator to cover themselves. Count on the generator to be heavily mined and toss a few grenades around it before beginning to hack it.

If you just can’t seem to get enough of your infantry at the generator long enough to hold it, try taking your outpost Titan to harass the Strogg as they spawn. As long as the Titan only needs to worry about the spawning Strogg it should be able to keep them suppressed for long enough for your infantry to complete the objective.

The third objective is definitely one of the more difficult objectives for the GDF to complete on this map mainly due to the relative proximity of the Strogg spawn, so if you manage to complete it even with as little as 2:00 remaining you’re in pretty good shape.

Phase 4 – Destroying the Contaminator Facility
Upon completing the 3rd objective, dart to the forward spawn, capture it, mine it up, and call in your deployables. Your vehicle pilots should keep their spawns at their vehicles. Most of your Covertops should switch to Soldiers but keep at least one for radar. I recommend taking a GPMG for Soldiers since most of your heavy fighting should be inside the facility itself. Your vehicles should redeploy to get open shots on any Strogg running from their spawn to the facility entrance as well as be able to clear any turrets/vehicles off the ledge overlooking the forward spawn. If more than half of the Strogg are able to make it from their spawn to the facility without at least taking some decent splash damage then your vehicles aren’t doing a good enough job.

The fastest way from the forward spawn to the facility is to equip your knife, hold down sprint, and bunny hop up past the main road, over the steps and into the crumbled façade of the facility. Make sure to drop at least one supply crate along the way so infantry that take some damage or run into a turret can arrive at full health and fully stocked on ammo.

If APTs are blocking the main path then use a left hook around the wall to get to the facility, toss your grenades at any active turrets so they will be closer to disabled when the next wave runs into them.

The majority of infantry inside the facility should be Soldiers/Medics. Remember to use your radar, watch for mines, don’t bunch up so as to avoid grenade splash damage and let the Soldiers go first. If you have enough infantry inside the building take multiple routes to the contaminator and try to catch the defending Strogg in a crossfire situation that leaves them no place to retreat to. Again, expect the contaminator to be heavily mined. Once the charges have been planted, use leaning to give yourself a defensive advantage against the Strogg who now will be forced to assault your position.

If your vehicles are doing even a half decent job the Strogg should not be able to hold out for very long against your attacks on the final objective.

[Ender-Wiggin.DA.]

FOPS use rockets on the Strogg deployables/desecrator in phase two to get the MCP deployed. Best when you work with a soldier with a Rocket Launcher to protect your rocket mortar from the tormentor.

[gamma]

nice post, some good info in there

[ASnogarD]

I find just a rapid rush to the objective, when building the bridge, by engineers is far more effective than deployables... any engineer deploying stuff is wasted at this phase ... in my opinion.

Grab a husky and rush to the objective, go prone on the right side of the objective and build like mad, other engineers aught to be rushing in at the same time so the bridge gets built before Strogg deployables come online.

MCP tactics differ, its no use if the MCP rushes forward but leaves all the team behind, the Titan and Trojan should move in front of the MCP and clear all obstacles and assist in the captureof the forward point. The ideal times for the MCP to clear the tunnel is either if the Titan and Trojan were encountering little resistance in the tunnel and were able to clear it quickly, a quick MCP run to the outpost is good here, or if there was resistance the MCP should remain in the tunnel till the path has been cleared somewhat.

The worst position for the MCP to be disabled is outside the tunnel and partway down the path, or even worse... stuck close to the objective, basically its ideal to prevent the MCP getting disabled in Strogg held territory.

Shield hacking and Contaminator detonation is another kettle of fish, and is where the GDF often get bogged down for the remainder of the map time.

Some tips hacking :

- GDF are attacking, the more time GDF spend setting up defences at the outpost the more time the Strogg have to prepare for the GDF to attempt to hack the generator, basically just drop a Radar and a AIT deployable, and assualt the Strogg.

- Go as a group, if you are driving the Trojan or flying the Bumblebee try take a few with you to the area..the sooner a team can get to the shield generator the easier it is to hack it, leave it too late and the Strogg will have strong anti personal and vehicle defences online, and will be harrasing GDF with Hog runs and Tormentor strafes.

- Its usefull to deploy 1 3rd Eye on the Shield Generator, it creates a on the spot radar to show where the Strogg are located near the generator.

- 1 player could re-spawn by the initial GDF area and bring that Titan to the battle.

Hope these help some.

[ShortyMcNostril]

There's a good sniping spot on the hills above the Strogg spawn. It seems like a wasted cov ops, but you can easily overlook the whole generator area and snipe strogg players that run out of the spawn and constructors placing mines/repairing inside the generator enclosure. You also have full view of the icarus so you can tell when they're coming for you, and you're pretty hard to see and counter snipe from down low. You can be really annoying and buy whoever is hacking some time (hell, nothing beats the feeling you get when you snipe someone who is just about to shoot your hacker in the back).

Another amusing thing to do is to drive the trojan up to the front right entrance and just wedge it in there while mowing down anyone that comes close and blowing up mines. Just by going back and forth and shooting continuously you can keep a good 2-3 people occupied and turrets have a hard time getting at you, buying more time for your hacker or setting up the strogg for a nice hammer strike in the face.

[Anarchy]

An extremely dirty & effective tactic (Phase 4) is to drive the Titan into the Strogg spawn and kill as many as you can + all deployables in sight + vehicles ... in that tight location it'll take some time till it's gone and the soldiers get more time for the planting ....

Just happened today while i was @ Strogg Died 3 times before i could escape the Titan but at that Point it's been too late ...

[Jammydodger]

Yeah that has happened to me too, very unsportsmanlike and I would not recommend it as it gives you a bad name in the community.

[ShortyMcNostril]

How is it unsportsmanlike? You're getting spawn camped, spawn somewhere else. Given how close the spawns are to the objective, spawn killing is pretty much necessary for GDF against a decent team.
If there were only one spawn then maybe, but you have a choice. Spawn closer and run the risk of a tank blowing you to smithereens when you land, or spawn at the back base and be safe. Hell, the GDF tunnel spawn is a good example of this.

[hitman08]

spawn killing is bad you shouldnt spawnkill it ruins the game. there is no point in playing if as soon as you respawn you are shot down by a spawnkiller. you just join a never ending loop where you die, respawn, die, respawn etc.

[Cerci]

Originally Posted by hitman08

spawn killing is bad you shouldnt spawnkill it ruins the game. there is no point in playing if as soon as you respawn you are shot down by a spawnkiller. you just join a never ending loop where you die, respawn, die, respawn etc.

[GreasedScotsman]

Valley does present a real issue with spawns for those who think they should never be denied their easiest option. As other people have said, the Strogg have plenty of other spawn points to choose from as well as full damage immunity for about 4 seconds after they hit the ground as long as they don't do anything aggressive. In the case of the hacking and final objectives, this makes it a no-brainer to avoid the Titan or any other suppressive fire, which is usually camped near the Cyclops:

Spawn, switch to a 1-handed weapon, and then sprint. Don't fire or try to deploy anything. Take the left path/opening that leads to the shield generator. From this point on, you'll be fairly safe from the Titan assuming its near the Cyclops. Chances are they'll be focused on keeping the Hog dead and the Cyclops inactive. You'll be forced to come out by the cargo containers and enter the building where the GDF's main entrance is... but only about 5 seconds are lost taking this route compared to a straight sprint from the spawn to the orange shield door.

Now, there are a ton of advantages from taking this route:

1. You can deploy a vehicle turret behind the Titan. There are TONS of deployable spaces that allow you great flanking coverage. Use them! You can even deploy a AVT while standing in complete cover from both infantry and the Titan, behind the cargo containers, looking out over the small, wide incline leading up to the Cyclops station. Your AVT will land with 1 to 2 seconds of immunity and will launch at least 2 shots before it can be countered. That's assuming the Titan driver even notices it landing at all to even get 1 shot off.

2. You can intercept GDF folks as they enter.

3. Most GDF are very focused on what's between them and the objective. They rarely expect headshots from behind them. I've mowed down GDF 4:1 this way. Don't just rush in!. Don't reenact the "Engineer rushing for the MCP" routine. We've learned that lesson, haven't we? Same applies here. Wait for a GDF wave to spawn. Watch them from the safety of the buildings/cargo containers. Let them enter the building. Head in after them. Watch as they get sandwiched between your grenades and suppressive fire and mines your constructors have set. Nothing finer than watching a flustered GDF having to choose between a grenade and a mine.

[GreasedScotsman]

Look at it this way: The GDF lose when they don't think of making use of a multi-front assault. They lose when they just lemming towards the MCP or the Shield Generator. They lose when they don't protect or take the extra time necessary to use their vehicles in previous spawn points.

For the most part, the Strogg have gotten used to their "shooting fish in a barrel" tactics for weeks on the first 2 or 3 objectives of Valley and have rarely had to think much about coming up with any decent tactics. Just look at all the posts on this forum with frustrated GDF folks who didn't think wins against Strogg were possible, who didn't see all the options in front of them, who didn't want to have to think about how to pick apart the Strogg entrenchment.

Well guess what guys? GDF is starting to learn how to force the Strogg out of their nests, out of their comfortable tactics. Last night as GDF I won I think 12 stopwatch rounds when I was on the GDF side (we won all our games when Strogg too) and most rounds took 8 to 15 mins. Why? The Strogg has no idea what to do when they can't entrench. They have no clue how to take down an extremely aggressive offense. For example, I almost never let the Strogg even deploy turrets during the MCP phase. Why? I'm at the MCP deploy area with the APC before they even think to respawn after the bridge has been constructed. I whittle down the Desecrator to about 2 health, back up and find some cover, and then just mow the Strogg down as they respawn and rush for the the tunnel. Most Strogg just expect to be able to spawn and rush back to the objective and they never even think to spawn an Aggressor with an Obliterator. Most of the time they're all Constructors who think of lobbing nades instead of using the few precious seconds it takes me to kill them to deploy an AVT. That's all it would take. One Constructor smart enough to whip out his deploy tool and select AVT before he dies. My entire strategy would be thwarted (unless I found cover quickly enough). But it doesn't happen. Or at least, it hasn't happened yet.

This is no different than what we had a few weeks ago when the GDF had no clue to how to time their MCP movement, provide cover for their engineers, or synchronize their deployment disabling with a big hacking push. Look at all the posts from GDF whining about how unfair Strogg snipers are, how its no fair the Strogg get all the deployable territory on the exit end of the tunnel, or how the GDF (who lemming across the longest bridge/chokepoint in ETQW history) get mowed down trying to get to the Shield Generator. Well, the GDF have learned a few things:

Deployables are kicking our asses. Why let the Strogg deploy at all?

Snipers are kicking our asses. Let's continually deny them their Icaruses so they can't return to their nests.

Hogs are killing our vehicles. They won't exist for more than 2 seconds once they spawn. Or my personal favorite... prox mining the vehicles.... *cackle*

So now that the tables are turning, here are my questions for you, Strogg:

Where are you spawn hosts? Why are you spawning at the spawnpoint at all? Oh that's right, you haven't needed spawnhosts until now.

Where are your deployables protecting the spawn areas? Oh, you haven't needed them until now.

Where's your Cyclops? I so rarely see the Cyclops in action unless the GDF has already secured/tried to secure the area. The design of the entire area behind the shield generator is great for the Cyclops because it provides cover for a good 80% of its body in siege mode. The Titan has to be a really good shot in order to land hits, while the Cyclops can pick off things from a distance. Also, the shot fall-off of the Titan and its fewer hit points limits its effectiveness versus the Cyclops.

As I've often guessed, Valley isn't imbalanced... it's just not designed for lemming tactics from either side if both teams are playing well. In my mind, it's a great map to flex your brain a bit and come up with great tactics and counter-tactics. Until then, I'll be seeing many-a-Strogg-lemming-ass dead on the pavement.

[Rodriguez]

Originally Posted by goliathvt

Where are you spawn hosts? Why are you spawning at the spawnpoint at all? Oh that's right, you haven't needed spawnhosts until now.

As I spend 80% of my QW time as a Technician I feel obliged to tune in here...
I only play since the Demo came out so I cant say anything about combat tactics that were used during beta.

About the spawnhost: Compared to the GDF Medic we Technicians require some well deserved "us-time" with our vis-à-vis and a nice cozy haven where we can feel secure before we actually stick it in...
(Wait, did that just sound odd?)
So we actually have to survive the first onslaught before we can utilize this very useful feature and because most GDF troopers die outside of good cover (for the Stroggs side) not everyone makes a useful host. I still try to make as many as feasible, especially at objective 2 and 4, but that leads to the next problem:
People still not use them enough... (seems to get better though)

Originally Posted by goliathvt

Where are your deployables protecting the spawn areas?

True, especially objective 3 is always lacking defensive coverage but its also a somewhat bad place to defend I think.

Originally Posted by goliathvt

The Titan has to be a really good shot in order to land hits, while the Cyclops can pick off things from a distance.

You also have to remember that the Cyclops doesn't fire in parallel lines but towards a fixed point so his firing line is actually an "X", which makes it also difficult to hit things at distance.

[Shaamaan]

All those tips are nice and well... unfortunately, they only work when the team knows what to do.

Too many times I've played with teams of complete newbies. The most common example? 3 covert ops / infiltrators and not a single radar. And I've yet to see another person but me deploy smoke grenades as GDF to cover the bridge objective from sniper fire.

On a side note, I wonder if anyone could prepare a similar (to the OPs) post about Strogg tactics on that map.

EDIT: Oh, and I have never, EVER seen anyone actually USE the sewers. Sometimes some lone GDF soldier will blow up the entrance, but that's about it.

[space]

FYI: You have a 7 second spawn shield which is more then enough to escape a camping tank. Just remember if you change you weapon fire your weapon or get in a vehicle it disables. Just spawn and ignore the tank and get in a good posistion to attack it.

Also.. you can press "L" and select the rear spawn point and bring up a hog/icarus/desicrator.

EDIT:

@Shaamaan: It is not uncommon if you see me and my buddy s1n in a server that we will destroy the sewer grate and fly a full bee through the sewers for a backrage assault.

[Shaamaan]

Originally Posted by space

@Shaamaan: It is not uncommon if you see me and my buddy s1n in a server that we will destroy the sewer grate and fly a full bee through the sewers for a backrage assault.

Oh, I just meant that it's really, really rare. At least I haven't seen it done. Teamwork fails miserably mostly... People get into vehicles and just zoom of without waiting for a gunner or a small squad.

BTW: what can I, as an infiltrator do against those mad engineers rushing to build the bridge at the start of a game? I can't snipe them, going in with a grenade is tricky and... well, I'd rather keep my distance (being infiltrator an' all). Of course, if I manage to somehow grab an Icarus I can harass them with bombs, but usually the Icarus will be taken by someone else.

Of course my question is concerning public servers, where quite a lot of people don't know what to do. A decent team would get those engineers without a problem. I just want to know if there's anything I can do on a newbie-like team.